Clarifying the EULA.
by Kent Butler · in Torque 3D Professional · 09/30/2016 (12:03 pm) · 3 replies
Hey. This is a followup to the now-locked "Someone want to sell his unused account/products?" thread. I'm not trying to buy or sell anything at this point but wanted to clarify rights under the EULA.
I understand that it is prohibited for a studio to transfer, say, a "Torque 3d Studio" license to another entity. However, I just wanted to clarify that in the event that a studio - a business- is sold, GarageGames does not hold the position this would terminate the licenses that underpin a studio's core IP just because it has been acquired by a new investor.
I understand that it is prohibited for a studio to transfer, say, a "Torque 3d Studio" license to another entity. However, I just wanted to clarify that in the event that a studio - a business- is sold, GarageGames does not hold the position this would terminate the licenses that underpin a studio's core IP just because it has been acquired by a new investor.
#2
I guess a big part of me is concerned you went out the way you went out on that other thread. The EULA doesn't specifically *prohibit* transferring licenses at all. It simply requires written permission from Garage Games to do so. And, honestly, at this stage, I don't think it's unfair for those of us who have supported GG for years to ask why GG would refuse to give it. Why are you making us jump through these hoops at all?
Anyone who is trying to get their hands on extant licenses would only be doing so if they are stuck in the middle of being stuck in one of your proprietary codebases. Our ecosystem is now a wasteland littered with the high-hopes and broken dreams of an entire generation of indies attracted by the promise "Torque provides the engine ... just add art and you have a video game."
Those of us who are left are more mature and taking stock of what it will take to actually get something on the market. One big thing is getting help. It is hard as hell (bordering on impossible) to make a game alone. So, how does someone like me - with considerable assets in TGE move forward?
Sure, I can port to T3D Harvard ... and as a solo operation, that's looking like two years. What I'd really need is to seat two programmers to help me port. But you guys don't sell TGE anymore and haven't for years. We're all in this boat.
It seems as if GG is adopting a stance that is openly hostile to the idea those of use who have invested cash with GG in the past want to pull together something of value from the assets we've created. And that sucks.
Facebook and Google change EULA terms like most people change their underwear. Likewise, Garage Games could change theirs tomorrow to make more sense based on needs of the current environment. So, why WON'T you at least give us written permission to consolidate some of the currently wasted productivity?
I can only talk from my side ... but it seems like everyone's resources are best spent on things other than preparing to sue each other, no? I'm not a kid anymore; I support and appreciate GG, but I'm in it for me. If you push us to hiring lawyers rather than artists andcoders, Garage Games WILL end up needing lawyers too. Is this really what we want to reduce Torque to?
10/16/2016 (10:14 am)
I already have informally done so and it seems to be a clean approach. My question is if Garage Games would perceive themselves to hold rights that you would attempt to assert in such a situation? Only you can answer that ... a lawyer can't read your mind.I guess a big part of me is concerned you went out the way you went out on that other thread. The EULA doesn't specifically *prohibit* transferring licenses at all. It simply requires written permission from Garage Games to do so. And, honestly, at this stage, I don't think it's unfair for those of us who have supported GG for years to ask why GG would refuse to give it. Why are you making us jump through these hoops at all?
Anyone who is trying to get their hands on extant licenses would only be doing so if they are stuck in the middle of being stuck in one of your proprietary codebases. Our ecosystem is now a wasteland littered with the high-hopes and broken dreams of an entire generation of indies attracted by the promise "Torque provides the engine ... just add art and you have a video game."
Those of us who are left are more mature and taking stock of what it will take to actually get something on the market. One big thing is getting help. It is hard as hell (bordering on impossible) to make a game alone. So, how does someone like me - with considerable assets in TGE move forward?
Sure, I can port to T3D Harvard ... and as a solo operation, that's looking like two years. What I'd really need is to seat two programmers to help me port. But you guys don't sell TGE anymore and haven't for years. We're all in this boat.
It seems as if GG is adopting a stance that is openly hostile to the idea those of use who have invested cash with GG in the past want to pull together something of value from the assets we've created. And that sucks.
Facebook and Google change EULA terms like most people change their underwear. Likewise, Garage Games could change theirs tomorrow to make more sense based on needs of the current environment. So, why WON'T you at least give us written permission to consolidate some of the currently wasted productivity?
I can only talk from my side ... but it seems like everyone's resources are best spent on things other than preparing to sue each other, no? I'm not a kid anymore; I support and appreciate GG, but I'm in it for me. If you push us to hiring lawyers rather than artists andcoders, Garage Games WILL end up needing lawyers too. Is this really what we want to reduce Torque to?
#3
1. All instances of "you" and "GarageGames" do not pertain to me personally. That's full disclosure, since I do not work at GarageGames, LLC anymore. I was relaying a previous message that moderators have always been consistent on.
2. The website and forums themselves are not for selling or trading accounts, products, or licenses. These matters are handled on a case by case basis, privately between those who wish to be involved. A required party in that is GarageGames itself.
I'm not saying what you are potentially desiring is out of the question. It's just something that happens via direct communication with someone at GG. You would be surprised at how much is approved just by asking and explaining your situation. That's all
10/16/2016 (11:15 am)
@Kent - Very good points and I completely see what you are saying, even agreeing with a lot of it. There are two things to clarify before going forward:1. All instances of "you" and "GarageGames" do not pertain to me personally. That's full disclosure, since I do not work at GarageGames, LLC anymore. I was relaying a previous message that moderators have always been consistent on.
2. The website and forums themselves are not for selling or trading accounts, products, or licenses. These matters are handled on a case by case basis, privately between those who wish to be involved. A required party in that is GarageGames itself.
Quote:It seems as if GG is adopting a stance that is openly hostile to the idea those of use who have invested cash with GG in the past want to pull together something of value from the assets we've created. And that sucks.I don't agree. The topic of this post has been discussed before with the same reaction as I provided. Whether it was sharing source, official art, licenses, and so on. It's been that way since a long, long time ago, throughout the iterations of the EULA/TOS.
I'm not saying what you are potentially desiring is out of the question. It's just something that happens via direct communication with someone at GG. You would be surprised at how much is approved just by asking and explaining your situation. That's all
Quote:"Torque provides the engine ... just add art and you have a video game."That has never been stated by anyone official regarding Torque. Coding has always been a requirement. Some engines, like Torque 2D, made it easier via behaviors, but still.
Quote:I can only talk from my side ... but it seems like everyone's resources are best spent on things other than preparing to sue each other, no?Completely agreed, which is why no one is preparing to sue each other. To the best of my knowledge, no one at GG has ever sued anyone over a license. The most harsh thing I've ever seen GG do is lock accounts of people who obviously pirated an engine.
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