Torque MIT Store. Why Not?
by GamerX · in Torque 3D Professional · 11/25/2014 (6:36 pm) · 16 replies
I see that there's already a separate Torque3d.org site for the new MIT version. good job guys!!!
now let's get cracking.. I think for any product or project, open source or commercial there has to be kind of support coming in and out. FUNDING in short. blender has proven this funding thing so i don't see why the torque project, contributors and SC should hesitate to bring this out in the public and make campaigns. I know they have been generous sharing their "tech" with us, but they deserve to be compensated with their hard work and commitment!
ok so let's get straight to the point, why not have a store section on the site???..
**here are my ideas**
1. seller or author (FREE or commercial) should be an active member for at least some period or SC can set this requirement.
2. a demo image or video of the product should be submitted along with a voting system ala steam greenlight. this is also to avoid scams. either a very very small fee to enter and get verified or SC team can verify by testing the product or sth like that. whichever works.
3. once added products still has a rating or review system. must be a gg forum member or at least has verified that he/she bought the product so there are no phony raters. so quality products will be sorted out.
4 percentage of the sale goes to foundation, "willing to code for free" contributors and committee. they can use the funds to outsource talented coders or artist out there for new resources on the next release or make quality demos and also as compensation for their hardwork or time.
5. there should be a clear disclaimer somewhere on the store that it's a non-profit as I understand that this has been the case.
6) put more of your ideas here..
I see the site uses drupal. lots of store plugins available freely so I guess there's no problem in that area.. (www.drupal.org/project/ecommerce)
for starters, this will encourage and expose who are the regular torque supporters who needs to earn or make their game commercially, and could finally say they have a "home" to turn to and get started with their content or game project, instead of posting their products in the blog section, which somehow looks "inappropriate".
..one way or the other, there has to be some kind of economy and support, intellectual or monetary wise to give to the SC team or devs/modelers/artists that they could hire, so the project or engine can flourish and make its way out to the public. its obvious the dev and SC team needs some kind of compensation, even though they do all this in their spare time or as a hobby. and i don't see any funding initiative starting somewhere. i guess this will be the "other" solution to pull this off.
for all torque products (3D, 2D, TGEA, TGB, so on so on..) since they are still being used today. just look at the forums, excluding the regular spammers. my god.
www.torque3d.org/store
#MAKE IT HAPPEN
im done.
now let's get cracking.. I think for any product or project, open source or commercial there has to be kind of support coming in and out. FUNDING in short. blender has proven this funding thing so i don't see why the torque project, contributors and SC should hesitate to bring this out in the public and make campaigns. I know they have been generous sharing their "tech" with us, but they deserve to be compensated with their hard work and commitment!
ok so let's get straight to the point, why not have a store section on the site???..
**here are my ideas**
1. seller or author (FREE or commercial) should be an active member for at least some period or SC can set this requirement.
2. a demo image or video of the product should be submitted along with a voting system ala steam greenlight. this is also to avoid scams. either a very very small fee to enter and get verified or SC team can verify by testing the product or sth like that. whichever works.
3. once added products still has a rating or review system. must be a gg forum member or at least has verified that he/she bought the product so there are no phony raters. so quality products will be sorted out.
4 percentage of the sale goes to foundation, "willing to code for free" contributors and committee. they can use the funds to outsource talented coders or artist out there for new resources on the next release or make quality demos and also as compensation for their hardwork or time.
5. there should be a clear disclaimer somewhere on the store that it's a non-profit as I understand that this has been the case.
6) put more of your ideas here..
I see the site uses drupal. lots of store plugins available freely so I guess there's no problem in that area.. (www.drupal.org/project/ecommerce)
for starters, this will encourage and expose who are the regular torque supporters who needs to earn or make their game commercially, and could finally say they have a "home" to turn to and get started with their content or game project, instead of posting their products in the blog section, which somehow looks "inappropriate".
..one way or the other, there has to be some kind of economy and support, intellectual or monetary wise to give to the SC team or devs/modelers/artists that they could hire, so the project or engine can flourish and make its way out to the public. its obvious the dev and SC team needs some kind of compensation, even though they do all this in their spare time or as a hobby. and i don't see any funding initiative starting somewhere. i guess this will be the "other" solution to pull this off.
for all torque products (3D, 2D, TGEA, TGB, so on so on..) since they are still being used today. just look at the forums, excluding the regular spammers. my god.
www.torque3d.org/store
#MAKE IT HAPPEN
im done.
About the author
Hard Core Gamer
#2
unless we're playing around here and pushing torque to become just a "hobby engine". its time to get serious here.
and as I have indicated, you can put it up for FREE or not. so let them decide what license they will put in and lets see what happens.
lets not wait on torque's fate to become a dying engine or worse... irrelevant. this is what happens to the ogre3d community. its already dead! check out their forum. its only a place for beginners and then some dev team answering lame questions while figuring out and fixing directx11 bullshit bugs or sth. every PRO is on their own making their potential game. do take note that they have a similar licensing scheme.
share your ideas, content and get paid for what its worth or showcase it for free! its worth a try!!!
11/25/2014 (8:02 pm)
I dont think so. its time that it gets known that you can still make a career or living using torque, not just a hobby. it's also a starting point where you can showcase your product or idea. the only way pro devs or other artists can take interest on this is to step it up and follow what other have accomplished. something should be organize, a front-end or happening and make it a give and take situation. not just the SC, devs and contributors doing all the work.unless we're playing around here and pushing torque to become just a "hobby engine". its time to get serious here.
and as I have indicated, you can put it up for FREE or not. so let them decide what license they will put in and lets see what happens.
lets not wait on torque's fate to become a dying engine or worse... irrelevant. this is what happens to the ogre3d community. its already dead! check out their forum. its only a place for beginners and then some dev team answering lame questions while figuring out and fixing directx11 bullshit bugs or sth. every PRO is on their own making their potential game. do take note that they have a similar licensing scheme.
share your ideas, content and get paid for what its worth or showcase it for free! its worth a try!!!
#3
here is a blurb i got from unity's forum with a user asking the same issue:
bottomline: every asset store of whatever engine has this type of licensing, its common sense and protection from the merchant. and we should be aware of it and then apply the same principle and rules to the proposed store!
11/25/2014 (8:28 pm)
as for licensing issues with game content or IP. that's not enough reasoning as other engines has no problems with it. put up a EULA of some kind for all users before sign up.here is a blurb i got from unity's forum with a user asking the same issue:
Quote:APPENDIX 1
Asset STORE End User License Agreement
2.2
Licensor grants to the END-USER a non-exclusive, worldwide, and perpetual license to the Asset to integrate Assets only as incorporated and embedded components of electronic games and interactive media and distribute such electronic game and interactive media. Except for game services software development kits (�Services SDKs�), END-USERS may modify Assets. END-USER may otherwise not reproduce, distribute, sublicense, rent, lease or lend the Assets. It is emphasized that the END-USERS shall not be entitled to distribute or transfer in any way (including, without, limitation by way of sublicense) the Assets in any other way than as integrated components of electronic games and interactive media. Without limitation of the foregoing it is emphasized that END-USER shall not be entitled to share the costs related to purchasing an Asset and then let any third party that has contributed to such purchase use such Asset (forum pooling).
Its like two thirds down the page: https://unity3d.com/company/legal/as_terms
I know this thread is old, but I didn't see a straight answer.
And as for modifying the asset, I remember reading it somewhere but I couldn't find it again. I believe you can alter it as you wish, just note that no matter how much you alter, or change the asset, nor how little you take from an asset, it still does not make the resulting asset yours.
You also do not have to credit the author unless specified. (Though, you should "
bottomline: every asset store of whatever engine has this type of licensing, its common sense and protection from the merchant. and we should be aware of it and then apply the same principle and rules to the proposed store!
#4
Just because you dislike non-free things doesn't mean other people mind it.
It's no different than other sites that still sell T3D-focused content.
I like the idea of a store, even if most people throw free content onto it, it would be a good centralized point for content to be placed.
The main issue would be deciding on what software would be used and issues around managing the monetary back end.
11/25/2014 (10:09 pm)
@Duion Just because you dislike non-free things doesn't mean other people mind it.
It's no different than other sites that still sell T3D-focused content.
I like the idea of a store, even if most people throw free content onto it, it would be a good centralized point for content to be placed.
The main issue would be deciding on what software would be used and issues around managing the monetary back end.
#5
not making a game and you share codes for free? you get popular or offer your services in the long run. just creating paid assets? you get paid what you worked hard for and make some sort of a career. either way, its a good start to make something good out of the engine and get established as a torque user, merchant, supporter or professional. the engine and project in turn gets more popular.
its somehow an encouragement and a clear message that the community still exists and there's definitely a lot of activity going on and a place to look forward to besides this forum. compare to everyday spam here and there popping up and out of topic blogs promoting some maniacal products or services. blogs are only for your thoughts with the engine and game dev in particular or other ideas and the store should be the place where you sell your stuff. just plain and simple.
a request to GG to add a new link to this new store so new users will know where to look for free or paid content, or they too can participate if they have something good to offer, gratis or for sale.
this would definitely seal the deal!
11/25/2014 (10:58 pm)
yea Jeff, you get the point. have it all centralized free or paid since the GG store has a few assets and its really a wrong impression for new users coming in that only a few items are just there and majority are from way back. this exposure and marketing method has been tried and tested. In fact, everybody wins.not making a game and you share codes for free? you get popular or offer your services in the long run. just creating paid assets? you get paid what you worked hard for and make some sort of a career. either way, its a good start to make something good out of the engine and get established as a torque user, merchant, supporter or professional. the engine and project in turn gets more popular.
its somehow an encouragement and a clear message that the community still exists and there's definitely a lot of activity going on and a place to look forward to besides this forum. compare to everyday spam here and there popping up and out of topic blogs promoting some maniacal products or services. blogs are only for your thoughts with the engine and game dev in particular or other ideas and the store should be the place where you sell your stuff. just plain and simple.
a request to GG to add a new link to this new store so new users will know where to look for free or paid content, or they too can participate if they have something good to offer, gratis or for sale.
this would definitely seal the deal!
#6
I want the freedom to work with it as I want and not having to worry about reading licenses terms what I am allowed and what not and all those licenses have in common that they at least restrict the right to redistribute the product itself or derivates of it, but that is exactly what I want to do.
And because of that I already made my own asset "store", which has no license restrictions and no costs at all.
It is under www.duion.com/art/main for the people who do not know already, I know there is not so much there yet, the amount I can do is limited, but I already had some donations of content from others.
11/26/2014 (5:12 am)
These pseudo-free licenses are useless, I would never use something from that, does not matter if paid or gratis.I want the freedom to work with it as I want and not having to worry about reading licenses terms what I am allowed and what not and all those licenses have in common that they at least restrict the right to redistribute the product itself or derivates of it, but that is exactly what I want to do.
And because of that I already made my own asset "store", which has no license restrictions and no costs at all.
It is under www.duion.com/art/main for the people who do not know already, I know there is not so much there yet, the amount I can do is limited, but I already had some donations of content from others.
#7
And anyway - If the community wants to do something like this then we would need to do something like Blender did. Start a non-profit corporation or something similar with the sole purpose of husbanding the Torque Engines. The Empire of Chivalry and Steel and the Society for Creative Anachronism are both built on a similar model - they are run as non-profit corporations with the purpose of preserving a particular historical era. They collect dues from members, sell tickets to events, hold special events at schools, and many other activities - and I don't see why The Torque Foundation couldn't be like that (except for dues - it would have to be funded by donations and product sales I'd think).
Ok, I'll get my head out of the clouds now....
11/26/2014 (7:20 am)
Well, I want to sell a T3D t-shirt with a non-commercial license!And anyway - If the community wants to do something like this then we would need to do something like Blender did. Start a non-profit corporation or something similar with the sole purpose of husbanding the Torque Engines. The Empire of Chivalry and Steel and the Society for Creative Anachronism are both built on a similar model - they are run as non-profit corporations with the purpose of preserving a particular historical era. They collect dues from members, sell tickets to events, hold special events at schools, and many other activities - and I don't see why The Torque Foundation couldn't be like that (except for dues - it would have to be funded by donations and product sales I'd think).
Ok, I'll get my head out of the clouds now....
#9
11/26/2014 (8:05 am)
But at GG already has a shop and there are almost all paid on restricted licenses are not even close to have no relation to the MIT license. But who exactly has access to the VIP, put on a showcase products in this shop, I do not know. But the idea GamerX I like, I would suggest that would make a shop in which there were a few categories such as completely exempt from grand pianos and restrictions as MIT, so that people like Duion could get his area without any restrictions, and a separate category for people who are trying to make money received coin for their work, and the opportunity to share it with the GG if they wish to give support to (voluntarily of course). and then everyone could publish in its category what he wants to give without conditions, or to get some money. Then everyone will have what they want then I think it would be optimal ... 
#10
Olexiy: getting on the GG store is a matter of contacting GG, and they seemed helpful when I contacted them about Walkabout years ago, but the complicated process for international sellers, as well as the cut GG would take, just made me decide to roll my own store front. But of course, the benefit of the GG store would be visibility.
This store discussion ties into what I want to do with the project manager - i.e. make it easier to find and add reusable content like templates, assets, and script libraries. That could theoretically tie in to an asset store, allowing you to view and purchase all kinds of items.
11/26/2014 (7:06 pm)
See itch.io for a good example of someone who's set up an online store that's easy to use (for sellers), and has many nice features (pay-what-you-want, free content, etc).Olexiy: getting on the GG store is a matter of contacting GG, and they seemed helpful when I contacted them about Walkabout years ago, but the complicated process for international sellers, as well as the cut GG would take, just made me decide to roll my own store front. But of course, the benefit of the GG store would be visibility.
This store discussion ties into what I want to do with the project manager - i.e. make it easier to find and add reusable content like templates, assets, and script libraries. That could theoretically tie in to an asset store, allowing you to view and purchase all kinds of items.
#11
11/27/2014 (7:10 am)
I've thought what if the store does not have a particular product and only screen shots, a brief description of the product and the website address where you can go and find out all the details. The asset for example of such a site like Duion? and it could solve the problem with international sellers, but we could concentrate all available engine materials in one place where they are most needed, simply because this is where the walk Thiers who build games and they need assets bricks, but if the sites where that are scattered all over the web, people even have no idea, but when it is in the home shop, of the engine all under one roof, even if as a reference, it is much easier for people to find what they need and navigate with your choice of course is necessary to at the entrance was a control person to spam bots could not in store.
#12
(When I say 'sellers' and 'customers' I mean providers and consumers... of potentially free content as well.)
EDIT: oh right, if links to content are all you want right now, start using this page!
11/27/2014 (2:35 pm)
Yep, definitely a good idea. On the other hand, actually setting up your own online store is no cakewalk, and having everything sold through a single portal would reduce the work for sellers. It would also mean customers had a unified experience, one account, etc.(When I say 'sellers' and 'customers' I mean providers and consumers... of potentially free content as well.)
EDIT: oh right, if links to content are all you want right now, start using this page!
#13
https://www.drupal.org/project/ubercart
what do you think?
11/27/2014 (3:07 pm)
that's great and all Daniel, at least we can see some progress.. now for the main attraction, when can we expect the actual store front on the site? for starters you can accept free content and as Jeff was asking about what software to use, i think i already mentioned it to my post. or maybe ubercart..https://www.drupal.org/project/ubercart
what do you think?
#14
11/28/2014 (1:03 am)
Maybe a stupid question, possibly the wrong place to post, but has anyone made enquiries about getting T3D and T2D on Steam? There are game engines being sold there, but they do host F2P games as well, they may be amenable to hosting Torques stuff even if it is free, might be worth approaching them. At worst they can say no, at best Torque will suddenly be in front of 100 million plus user base. Possibly they might agree if it was bundled with some of the kits that do cost to buy so that the engine is free but say the content bundles cost, that way the sellers of the contents packs get money, and the users get the content and a free game engine, Torque is brought in view of new users and maybe the community will grow.
#15
GamerX: when? No idea. Nobody's starting on this, so, you timeline uncertain.
11/28/2014 (3:38 am)
Really interesting idea, we should keep that in mind when we actually get some content :P.GamerX: when? No idea. Nobody's starting on this, so, you timeline uncertain.
#16
Oh well, only a suggestion. It was only a very big 'if' possibility anyway.
11/28/2014 (8:42 am)
Steam are selling all sorts, RPGmakers kits app game kit, construct. Wouldn't it be worth asking Ron Kapuan if he was interested in putting his environments in a package, or the Ubiqvisuals guys, and a few others and offer it cheap. Might bring in some money for the developers. Ron worked a great deal on his environments and never made a dime from them.Oh well, only a suggestion. It was only a very big 'if' possibility anyway.
Duion
I think a store will not work, too complicate to integrate that with an open source software, since once the asset is open source, no one will buy it anymore. You can only try in front paying like Kickstarter or permanent donations like Patreon. But maybe someone could sell merchandise, it is the only thing I do not see a problem with.