Torque 3D 'toys' or demos

#1 I think that the demos should be based on why they should care similar to advertising. All demos should look pretty with eye candy but the focus should be RPG-ish rather than FPS because RPG means talent and it represents a sense of reason from its core of "why someone should care".
1): We need a simple quest demo -- Go get this item based on the original collect Torque logos.
2): Basic AI follows you. AI fights you. AI ally's with you to fight single enemy.
3): Vehicle demo: hovering, flying, and driving with hitting a goal through a timer for what vehicle they choose on the lot.
4): Assassin quest
5): Gold and treasure room quest, like old gauntlet games. Collection counter with simple inventory to see the items gained.
6): FPS style where it is kill everything with a generator that needs to be taken out as the end goal.
7): Rampage like area where you get points to break anything you can within a selectable time limit gui.
8): Simple "orders received to kill opposing party" RTS style level.
9): This one would be great if at all possible: A space simulation with simple battle.
10): A level with the scenery like the old Postal game. In this game you bark endless unrealistic demands to the Torque development team against a rival AI team. Which ever team makes them go postal first wins. Always exciting!!!

#2 now we're talking! Daniel, I just uploaded a half-working sample on the previous thread here..

it's not much but it should tackle how lightmaps work and how the user or artist can benefit from it. The last thing should be having it to blend with dynamic shadows like that of players to get that decent game feature.

AAA Engines like UDK relies on lightmaps heavily, and it will cripple performance without it. games with time of day are very rare so most games are going for this fail safe solution.

3rd party tool is now out of the question, there are lots of alternatives out there even free, deled editor (www.delgine.com) for one is where you can bake lightmaps, also in blender. Having it to work in game or a demo is another story and needs a great deal of attention.

#3 @DreamPharoah

I think you're missing the point here. starting with the basics can get you to work on those things. I have to agree some of your suggestions are good but it is too advanced to create in the first place. most of the items on your list are half made games and are templates btw.

The topic here is making each torque basic and significant functionality to work as described in the guides or if not yet documented, and not just wonder how they will look or work in-game.

of course there will be new features that will be added eventually, but the basics first please!

#4 DreamPharaoh I think those ideas all sound pretty involved for demos, and could each be their own template game! I think the idea with the demo repo, while we should definitely go into the sorts of scripting examples you propose, should be more focused on engine features, like 'this is how you use ribbons' or 'this is how you bind keys to stuff' or 'these are some projectiles', or even, yes, up to 'this is how you select units like an RTS'. Maybe like 'this is how you place structures like tower-defence'. Maybe I should have put up some example ideas :P.

EDIT: also I take issue with the statement 'RPG means talent' :P. BUT we should definitely take care to demonstrate non-FPS features. Like RTS selection. Yes.

#5 @GamerX

I see your point but if I was able to do most of these things by myself using mere Torque Script then it is, most definitely, not considered above basic. If you need my help getting these demos together than I will be more than happy to offer the code (Torque script) that makes most of these work. Although, I do agree with what you are advocating regarding the light maps. This is a great idea for implementation in certain areas. I will add that there are areas where this is not acceptable. I think we need to veer from the FPS way of thinking. We need to create eye-candy but this time we need to make them care about what they are playing as a demo. In essence we need to have enough substance that they can see part of their dream already in fruition rather than an empty (pretty) world they can walk around in for 5 minutes.

#6 A good demo would be to demonstrate non character based game too. Show people how to start with a vehicle or even the classic marble roll type demo( where is jeff ;) ).

#7 DreamPharoah, If you are reading other forums, particularly polycount and artisan sites, one thing they generally comment on torque is that it is hard to use. Why? because they don't have an idea on how to start with the basic functionality that torque has to offer. Graphic wise i think it is a contender but still needs improvement, with Beam drive and LiF, and other games from users here with success stories, it's getting there!

some players didn't even know the game is made with torque...

Steam user comment:

Quote:
I wanted to get LIF to support the development but then I noticed that they use the Torque 3D engine.
That piece of junk was already a pain in the rear while GarageGames still developed it and was left to rot as open-source software. Torque doesnt even support 64bit executables, which limits clients and servers to mere 4GB RAM to adress. (Tough limit for a survival-sandbox server like LIF:YO)

Theres so much more whack with Torque (texture handling, threading, ...) that I cant understand why a developer would choose this pile of garbage for a demanding project like LIF while there are many other pretty cheap and much better options available.

Im very curious if they will try to build the MMO on Torque, too. For now I will hold back and keep watching if or when the server performance hits the obvious brickwall.

(Yes, Torque is free, but that doesnt make it also a good and future-proof choice for a professional project!)

Full post of that steam member here
steamcommunity.com/app/290080/discussions/0/613937943163780227/

just stumbled on that last week, got to deal with reality sometimes. maybe a crispier and improved anti-aliasing will be a deal breaker. oh and upgrade with some shaders like god rays would be nice..

#8 @Daniel

My statement regarding "RPG's means talent" I stand by. If I was making an FPS I would have been done years ago, period. I respectfully disagree with you regarding the concept that these demo ideas are too complex (outside of the space simulation), but I understand that you may have a different direction that you are going with this. I will just reiterate that regardless of which direction you go with this, you need to make sure that your audience cares. I work in Social media -- I can not stress this enough. Bring them to action -- why do they care about what you are doing. Present a problem and give them the potential relief. Why would I want to load a Torque Demo when there are hundreds from Unity -- what is it that is different about what you offer?

#9 Well, yes. But Unity can make RPGs too.

#10 Yes I'm just pointing out one feature here that is still not addressed in the past, but I don't think FPS games only needs lightmaps. you can check that with UDK and Unity and those laundry list of indie titles that benefited from it.

I can agree that there are many other features that needs to have a demo, but you can't miss on the basic ones first particularly if there's a setting for it.

thank you for the offer DreamPharoah, I will hold on to that next time.

#11 Something I want: an example of using ScriptTickObject to make objects that update every frame. Potential use: nicely-interpolating position changes. Maybe make a bunch of ribbons that swirl around.

#12 A Real physics demo showcasing the physics plugins

#13 @GamerX


No one cares about some brick wall for a developer that needs to grow up and advance what they already have in place. At this point in a developers life-span they need to begin understanding and expanding the base engine. This is the case no matter what engine you have. This comment is so misplaced and seems to be based on things that the person does not even understand but reverberates like a zombie parrot from what seems to be cool right now -- hate on Torque because so-and-so in the game development world was burned once upon a time ago. I agree with you that eye candy is important but making the game fun will win this battle in my opinion. Torque is hard to use because of its lack of solid documentation. No one is going to care about that until the mother-ship looks cool and demonstrates what a game should do -- involve you even if it is just a demo.

#14 DreamPharaoh,

again with what you said to Daniel, its not about the idea that it is complex or hard, it's the priority on what to do first to revamp this great engine with lots to offer.

Yeah sure, you could have complete a FPS game but.. we're not only talking about you and rpg devs, there are other clueless devs who's still don't like to touch torque for some reason. How about a guide on how gui's and datablocks work together in detail so you can make your own rpg inventory? that's what we're talking about here.

Make the basics first for the noobs and technically challenged then make the templates after that. btw, there are professional kits already done and free resources here like the adventure kit by ubiqvisuals which looks really awesome.

priorities, it's that simple.

#15 A demo showing a custom material and shader combo would be useful too.

#16 ok yes I have to agree on that DreamPharoah. but again, there should be priorities..

1) basic examples
2) templates
3) then that shiny new demo where everyone has a clear understanding and can now use all the artistic aspects and technical features that torque has to offer.

done.

#17

Quote:A demo showing a custom material and shader combo would be useful too.

yep this would make a cool demo

#18 DreamPharaoh I guess these shouldn't be called 'demos'. Maybe a demo should be bigger, and actually fun, like I set out to do with my 7DFPS project. I think Timmy is thinking along the same lines I am, as is GamerX. Small toy scenes that actually teach you how to use the engine - as you said, "understanding and expanding the base engine". So, 'examples', 'toys', or 'scenes'.

Also, please watch your tone. We're all trying to work together here! (EDIT: I hardly think that showing someone how to use lightmapping is a 'brick wall', especially if, in attempting to make a simple lightmapping example, we discover something in the engine that needs to be fixed. That goes for all these examples.)

Anyway, DreamPharaoh, I want to start tweaking the project manager so it's really easy to find and pull down new templates, beyond Empty and Full. I think a lot of your ideas would work greats as templates, which people could download and start using to make an actual game.

#19 Yeah i was using the wrong word when i said 'demo'. See dans post above, that is what i meant.

#20 here's a perfect example on what needs to be done with lightmaps.. a lightmapped shadow and a dynamic entity shadow like player/character that blends well to achieve what lightmaps are supposed to do in a game/scene.






Just throwing this thing out as reference.