Artist and level designers
by Paul Yoskowitz · in Torque 3D Professional · 11/03/2014 (4:32 am) · 141 replies
Where do you feel that T3D is falling down as far as things for the artist and level designers?
This isn't about the latest DX/OGL or anything like that. What tools are missing compared to other engines out there right now that you feel would breathe new life into T3D-MIT and make development easier for you?
This is the list so far of issues or things that need added:
*Interior/structure designer like Constructor
*Prefab object that combines models and scripts
*Improve forest editor
*Beefing up the sketch tool
*Beef up the material editor
*Fix the Shadow system
*Jitter in terrain system between terrain and models
*Add weather system
*Better snapping system
*Better Zip file functionality
*Re-add terrain erosion
*Add terrain specular, and if needs be, remove parallax from the terrain pass to make way for it, but retain parallax for shapes.
*Add the ability to set a kind of 'alpha mask' for the terrain tools, so you can set the strength & shape of the tools a bit more specifically.
*Add more flexibility in the noise tool again, maybe being able to set a tiled heightmap mask to it so you can again control the behaviour of it better depending on design requirements.
*Water... although i havent played around with it in recent builds, and it may have been changed since i have used it properly, the settings for water could really be simplified down to make it more user friendly, alot of the settings are awkwardly named considering their effects on the water blocks.
*A basic precipitation and particle library
*Add split screen "view ports"
*Better terrain materials manager
*Add a semi "auto-zone" widget kinda thing. for example selecting a building shape, and at click of a button, create a "zone" item matching its bounds etc.
*Ground Cover needs collision support
*Add terrain layer sensitivity to the forest
*Improve character import
*Add more keyboard shortcuts and show on the menu
*Light bleeding through the seems
*Possibly change the ground cover and forest editor to be 2 more generalized editors
*when standing outside of a zone, particles and lights are visible that are created inside of it. the only way that they should be visible is by looking inside the zone through a portal.
*Occlusion Volume. It should have a switch that allows it to effect the terrain behind it or not. As it stands, it causes the terrain to disappear behind it, which u dont always want.
*More 3D imports
*Artist friendly - add sliders along w numbers input
*SKYBOX and SCATTER SKY should work together somehow
*Better animation blending
This isn't about the latest DX/OGL or anything like that. What tools are missing compared to other engines out there right now that you feel would breathe new life into T3D-MIT and make development easier for you?
This is the list so far of issues or things that need added:
*Interior/structure designer like Constructor
*Prefab object that combines models and scripts
*Improve forest editor
*Beefing up the sketch tool
*Beef up the material editor
*Fix the Shadow system
*Jitter in terrain system between terrain and models
*Add weather system
*Better snapping system
*Better Zip file functionality
*Re-add terrain erosion
*Add terrain specular, and if needs be, remove parallax from the terrain pass to make way for it, but retain parallax for shapes.
*Add the ability to set a kind of 'alpha mask' for the terrain tools, so you can set the strength & shape of the tools a bit more specifically.
*Add more flexibility in the noise tool again, maybe being able to set a tiled heightmap mask to it so you can again control the behaviour of it better depending on design requirements.
*Water... although i havent played around with it in recent builds, and it may have been changed since i have used it properly, the settings for water could really be simplified down to make it more user friendly, alot of the settings are awkwardly named considering their effects on the water blocks.
*A basic precipitation and particle library
*Add split screen "view ports"
*Better terrain materials manager
*Add a semi "auto-zone" widget kinda thing. for example selecting a building shape, and at click of a button, create a "zone" item matching its bounds etc.
*Ground Cover needs collision support
*Add terrain layer sensitivity to the forest
*Improve character import
*Add more keyboard shortcuts and show on the menu
*Light bleeding through the seems
*Possibly change the ground cover and forest editor to be 2 more generalized editors
*when standing outside of a zone, particles and lights are visible that are created inside of it. the only way that they should be visible is by looking inside the zone through a portal.
*Occlusion Volume. It should have a switch that allows it to effect the terrain behind it or not. As it stands, it causes the terrain to disappear behind it, which u dont always want.
*More 3D imports
*Artist friendly - add sliders along w numbers input
*SKYBOX and SCATTER SKY should work together somehow
*Better animation blending
About the author
http://winterleafentertainment.com/
#24
Oh it's not necessary, nils seems happy enough with the editor and he would most likely disagree with my comments about a standalone editor lol.
I actually spend SFA time in the editor anyway, i'm not an artist i only use it to check stuff and make sure everything is working ok. I have had to make quite a few hacks though (with physics stuff in the editor in particular) to make it work, all of which would be avoided in a stand alone editor. Anyway a stand alone editor would be a ridiculous amount of work so it's not really a viable option anyway ;-)
11/04/2014 (5:53 pm)
@Richard:Oh it's not necessary, nils seems happy enough with the editor and he would most likely disagree with my comments about a standalone editor lol.
I actually spend SFA time in the editor anyway, i'm not an artist i only use it to check stuff and make sure everything is working ok. I have had to make quite a few hacks though (with physics stuff in the editor in particular) to make it work, all of which would be avoided in a stand alone editor. Anyway a stand alone editor would be a ridiculous amount of work so it's not really a viable option anyway ;-)
#25
11/04/2014 (7:17 pm)
"Everywhere is 'walking distance' if you have the time...." 
#26
11/05/2014 (4:06 pm)
Maybe better terrain tools, like basetexture painter and an erosion-function, so you could be independent of complicated terrain generation software. 
#27
11/05/2014 (7:01 pm)
Erosion should definitely happen! Not sure why it wasn't retained from TGE :(. Along with a better UI for managing a sort of 'modifier stack' or something like layers in an image might be cool, so you can play around them them while you edit.
#28
11/06/2014 (11:35 am)
Just to note in the code there are multiple types of erosion for the terrain height randomize tool (can't remember what it's called) that can be set in the code. 
#29
Another thing I would like is the ability to set a kind of 'alpha mask' for the terrain tools, so you can set the strength & shape of the tools a bit more specifically.
A bit more flexibility in the noise tool again, maybe being able to set a tiled heightmap mask to it so you can again control the behaviour of it better depending on design requirements.
Water... although i havent played around with it in recent builds, and it may have been changed since i have used it properly, the settings for water could really be simplified down to make it more user friendly, alot of the settings are awkwardly named considering their effects on the water blocks.
a basic precipitation and particle library would be nice too, though probably more of a 'secondary resource' than something to include in a base build.
It would be nice if you were able to have various "view ports" too, if thats possible. Splitting the screen with separate cameras to control depending on what viewport you have active
Terrain materials, would be nice if this could be managed in a way similar to the sim editor view, with a file tree to manage layers
Also, something that i think would be fanfrickentastic and would probably lead to another tool thats rarely noticed being used more is a semi "auto-zone" widget kinda thing. for example selecting a building shape, and at click of a button, create a "zone" item matching its bounds etc... just an idea tho
Theres alot of little ideas that would make things nicer to use etc...
11/06/2014 (1:46 pm)
Personally I would still like to see terrain specular, and if needs be, remove parallax from the terrain pass to make way for it, but retain parallax for shapes.Another thing I would like is the ability to set a kind of 'alpha mask' for the terrain tools, so you can set the strength & shape of the tools a bit more specifically.
A bit more flexibility in the noise tool again, maybe being able to set a tiled heightmap mask to it so you can again control the behaviour of it better depending on design requirements.
Water... although i havent played around with it in recent builds, and it may have been changed since i have used it properly, the settings for water could really be simplified down to make it more user friendly, alot of the settings are awkwardly named considering their effects on the water blocks.
a basic precipitation and particle library would be nice too, though probably more of a 'secondary resource' than something to include in a base build.
It would be nice if you were able to have various "view ports" too, if thats possible. Splitting the screen with separate cameras to control depending on what viewport you have active
Terrain materials, would be nice if this could be managed in a way similar to the sim editor view, with a file tree to manage layers
Also, something that i think would be fanfrickentastic and would probably lead to another tool thats rarely noticed being used more is a semi "auto-zone" widget kinda thing. for example selecting a building shape, and at click of a button, create a "zone" item matching its bounds etc... just an idea tho
Theres alot of little ideas that would make things nicer to use etc...
#30
It's just one button really... just one button that will make it all right!
11/07/2014 (8:22 am)
Quote:Where do you feel that T3D is falling down as far as things for the artist and level designers?
It's just one button really... just one button that will make it all right!
#31
MAKE GAEM!!11
that one ?
11/07/2014 (4:19 pm)
Quote:It's just one button really... just one button that will make it all right!
MAKE GAEM!!11
that one ?
#32
The special algorithm behind the Auto Make Game will search your browsing history to determine the most suitable genre of game to auto make. So for most of us, that's highly likely to be a Leisure Suit Larry clone.
11/07/2014 (5:21 pm)
Here we go, all fixed now. No need for world editor at all :)The special algorithm behind the Auto Make Game will search your browsing history to determine the most suitable genre of game to auto make. So for most of us, that's highly likely to be a Leisure Suit Larry clone.
#33
Here's a suggestion by Duion about the same thing that got voted up but never implemented: garagegames.uservoice.com/forums/178972-torque-3d-mit/suggestions/3998951-wind-a...
If I get some time to do some testing I'll take a look at it. Seems very similar in application to what I have with the multi-cube object I've been working with. Although in the case of groundCover, a handy editor checkbox to select the type of collision could be useful - similar to TSStatic.
11/10/2014 (12:19 pm)
Ground Cover needs collision support at the very least. This would make it possible to place trees with collision using groundCover objects. As it stands now, you can populate a scene with trees using groundCover but the groundCover object doesn't index and place collision meshes. Here's a suggestion by Duion about the same thing that got voted up but never implemented: garagegames.uservoice.com/forums/178972-torque-3d-mit/suggestions/3998951-wind-a...
If I get some time to do some testing I'll take a look at it. Seems very similar in application to what I have with the multi-cube object I've been working with. Although in the case of groundCover, a handy editor checkbox to select the type of collision could be useful - similar to TSStatic.
#35
A real man doesn't hide.
If designing something with aesthetics in mind, I would most certainly place trees by hand (in a small scene).
If you actually are going to place every tree by hand in a scene that is at least 42 squared km that's just outright silly. In the cases where I've wanted to use groundCover for trees, the amount of trees were so many that if you sat there placing them by hand you were doing it wrong.
What if you are randomly generating your terrain and features? In this case, groundCover could be leveraged for its powerful random placement ability and actually be useful if it also placed collision meshes.
These are prime examples of the power that groundCover could have, with some indexing of collisions. I generally have seen quality postings from you in the past, Andy, so I'm a little confused as to why this posting is so...fickle.
11/10/2014 (3:27 pm)
Quote:A real man places every tree by hand
*hides*
A real man doesn't hide.
If designing something with aesthetics in mind, I would most certainly place trees by hand (in a small scene).
If you actually are going to place every tree by hand in a scene that is at least 42 squared km that's just outright silly. In the cases where I've wanted to use groundCover for trees, the amount of trees were so many that if you sat there placing them by hand you were doing it wrong.
What if you are randomly generating your terrain and features? In this case, groundCover could be leveraged for its powerful random placement ability and actually be useful if it also placed collision meshes.
These are prime examples of the power that groundCover could have, with some indexing of collisions. I generally have seen quality postings from you in the past, Andy, so I'm a little confused as to why this posting is so...fickle.
#36
And that "monolithic file" fix for forests should be included here....
@Timmy - Alright man! Thanks! I've been waiting for that button for a decade!
11/10/2014 (3:48 pm)
Well, groundcover vs forest I'll take forest. It has collision. We need to add terrain layer sensitivity to the forest tool though - that way you get groundcover's layer-sensitive placement and forest's superior object handling.And that "monolithic file" fix for forests should be included here....
@Timmy - Alright man! Thanks! I've been waiting for that button for a decade!
#37
@Richard: I must not be holding my mouth right when using the Forest tool. I probably don't have it set correctly when using it, but it always seems to cover the terrain with too many trees. It's finicky, like are you supposed to click and drag or just kinda 'spot-click' when using it?
All that aside, though, what if you have a large scene with more than one type of forest? Is it possible to use the Forest tool for different trees? I was under the impression you could only paint one forest per mission file.
Also, yep, terrain layer sensitivity would be a step in the right direction for the Forest tool.
11/10/2014 (3:54 pm)
lol @ Timmy! @Richard: I must not be holding my mouth right when using the Forest tool. I probably don't have it set correctly when using it, but it always seems to cover the terrain with too many trees. It's finicky, like are you supposed to click and drag or just kinda 'spot-click' when using it?
All that aside, though, what if you have a large scene with more than one type of forest? Is it possible to use the Forest tool for different trees? I was under the impression you could only paint one forest per mission file.
Also, yep, terrain layer sensitivity would be a step in the right direction for the Forest tool.
#38
You can set up the forest tool to use different brushes - each brush holds one or more trees (or other geometry, like boulders or burnt-out cars) that it will paint on the terrain.
11/10/2014 (4:38 pm)
Sure, click and drag, or spot-click, as you need. Change the "pressure" setting to reduce the "flow" if necessary.You can set up the forest tool to use different brushes - each brush holds one or more trees (or other geometry, like boulders or burnt-out cars) that it will paint on the terrain.
#39
11/10/2014 (4:50 pm)
Nice, appreciate it Richard, I need to do a bit more experimenting with the Forest tool. Perhaps it's a bit more useful than I originally thought, which is a good thing!
#40
11/11/2014 (5:49 pm)
so is it worth adding collision to the Groundcover editor? what about the ability to have trees only on certain terrain textures? its almost like we are looking to combine the 2 almost like the old replicators were. 
Torque 3D Owner Paul Yoskowitz
WinterLeaf Entertainment