About T3D Steering Committee (01/2014)
by Luis Anton Rebollo · in Torque 3D Professional · 01/21/2014 (4:20 am) · 77 replies
It has created some hopelessness toward the Committee since the announcement of his halt.
The committee is made up of all of us. It is a little our fault that no one outside of GG with rights to write to the repository on Github. I myself was thinking on send an apply, but the 2 times i thought that it was not the right person.
It is clear that this is not good for the community that the official repository this so stopped.
I hope to be able to submit my application to the committee when they have time to talk, but I am sure that in the community there are people better prepared than I am.
Torque3D Committee and GREED FPS are good for the community.
The committee is made up of all of us. It is a little our fault that no one outside of GG with rights to write to the repository on Github. I myself was thinking on send an apply, but the 2 times i thought that it was not the right person.
It is clear that this is not good for the community that the official repository this so stopped.
I hope to be able to submit my application to the committee when they have time to talk, but I am sure that in the community there are people better prepared than I am.
Torque3D Committee and GREED FPS are good for the community.
About the author
I'm working on a port of Torque3D to OpenGL and Linux/SteamOS
#2
BTW, the work you are doing is great...Personally I thank you and will try donating something next month :) Keep up the fantastic work!!!
***EDIT: Lukas, is always beatin me to the punch ;)...As for a reboot that Lukas mentioned above I would be willing but I would like to have GG's blessing, first! ***
01/21/2014 (4:45 am)
Luis I agree. I proposed a offer to reboot the committee. So all these different things the community is doing could be centralized and added to the main repo..With me now having alot of free time. I could help out where I can. I could even throw my hat in at being part of the committee if GG is willing to reboot. I hope everything works out.BTW, the work you are doing is great...Personally I thank you and will try donating something next month :) Keep up the fantastic work!!!
***EDIT: Lukas, is always beatin me to the punch ;)...As for a reboot that Lukas mentioned above I would be willing but I would like to have GG's blessing, first! ***
#3
I say this having not made any commits for a good couple of months. :P
01/21/2014 (4:51 am)
Anybody with a GitHub repo who accepts pull requests is the committee of their own fork. Of course, the SC set up by GarageGames has a monopoly on official approval, but that is less important than getting things done.I say this having not made any commits for a good couple of months. :P
#4
A fair point, but if someone goes looking for 'Torque3D', they'd get the current repo, not a repo that happened to have someone sit down and merge in all the fantastic updates and stuff like that. Sure, you MIGHT find that one, but that's definitely not 'Torque' in a forward-facing sense ;)
I'd be willing to throw my hat in the arena if we're restarting the committee. It's the engine I use, and I want to see it grow.
01/21/2014 (6:13 am)
@DanA fair point, but if someone goes looking for 'Torque3D', they'd get the current repo, not a repo that happened to have someone sit down and merge in all the fantastic updates and stuff like that. Sure, you MIGHT find that one, but that's definitely not 'Torque' in a forward-facing sense ;)
I'd be willing to throw my hat in the arena if we're restarting the committee. It's the engine I use, and I want to see it grow.
#5
I *may* still have admin privileges for it. If I do and can remember the login information I would happily give it to you guys, or grant additional admin rights, if you're interested.
01/21/2014 (11:31 am)
Hey guys, there should still be the Community Edition repository on Github. I had set it up and was porting the CE changes when I got involved in the Steering Committee. So I left it in the hands of Alfio, the other administrator. Since that time nothing else was done with it.I *may* still have admin privileges for it. If I do and can remember the login information I would happily give it to you guys, or grant additional admin rights, if you're interested.
#6
website
greed.torque3d.net/
moddb/indiedb
www.moddb.com/engines/greed-tech-mit
sourceforge
sourceforge.net/projects/greedtech/
if ppl are worried about the FPS aspect of Greed, they shouldnt be
The idea to make it a FPS/TPS Sandbox just transformed
and there is no reason why it cant be more and if we are honest
there are enough ppl that support the idea of greed.
It is just better to create something that can showcase the Engine in teh proper light and within time we can expand this to become a total sandbox for all kinds of genres.
So why not? is it about the name?
well the name itself is ment to reflect what the industry did and is still doing. Some might understand what i mean with this.
01/21/2014 (12:00 pm)
Or use what others already established with greedwebsite
greed.torque3d.net/
moddb/indiedb
www.moddb.com/engines/greed-tech-mit
sourceforge
sourceforge.net/projects/greedtech/
if ppl are worried about the FPS aspect of Greed, they shouldnt be
The idea to make it a FPS/TPS Sandbox just transformed
and there is no reason why it cant be more and if we are honest
there are enough ppl that support the idea of greed.
It is just better to create something that can showcase the Engine in teh proper light and within time we can expand this to become a total sandbox for all kinds of genres.
So why not? is it about the name?
well the name itself is ment to reflect what the industry did and is still doing. Some might understand what i mean with this.
#7
Nonetheless development for either should be done to keep the tech alive :)
***EDIT: Sent Alfio a message!
01/21/2014 (12:16 pm)
Well I still talk to Alfio from time to time on FB. I can send him a message right now and see what happens. Greed is great, but if the intent was FPS/TPS and to shed the T3D name and rep, then maybe GREED should be it's own or even a plug-in for the main T3D engine.Nonetheless development for either should be done to keep the tech alive :)
***EDIT: Sent Alfio a message!
#8
on the various features/tasks
take a look at the current setup of greed
by Azaezel
sourceforge.net/p/greedtech/code/ci/master/tree/
as you can see teh branches are setup so that ppl can work
on Ai/Graphics.... and more
And by working with multiple remotes we can handle this thing,
well am not going to waste my breath here, if ppl wish to go their way or highway style - so be it.
01/21/2014 (12:18 pm)
Further what i would purpose would be to setup teams that work independenton the various features/tasks
take a look at the current setup of greed
by Azaezel
sourceforge.net/p/greedtech/code/ci/master/tree/
as you can see teh branches are setup so that ppl can work
on Ai/Graphics.... and more
And by working with multiple remotes we can handle this thing,
well am not going to waste my breath here, if ppl wish to go their way or highway style - so be it.
#9
I agreed with Jolinar to start this project, since it is already much too late, this should have happened very earlier.
As far as I could understand it, the goal of Garagegames and the steering committee was to hand the engine over to the community and since this did not happen, we decided to start it, but this could have been done much earlier.
The plan with GREED is not totally fixed, everyone can come and make suggestions and if it sounds good to all, we can add it.
The idea was to speed up the process, so instead of waiting for a committee to accept the changes, just do it yourself.
You can sign in as a developer in GREED and submit the changes you want to make, so where is the problem?
01/21/2014 (12:21 pm)
It would not be very intelligent to split the development again, because of minor differences, we already do not have enough developers who want to contribute work for an open source project.I agreed with Jolinar to start this project, since it is already much too late, this should have happened very earlier.
As far as I could understand it, the goal of Garagegames and the steering committee was to hand the engine over to the community and since this did not happen, we decided to start it, but this could have been done much earlier.
The plan with GREED is not totally fixed, everyone can come and make suggestions and if it sounds good to all, we can add it.
The idea was to speed up the process, so instead of waiting for a committee to accept the changes, just do it yourself.
You can sign in as a developer in GREED and submit the changes you want to make, so where is the problem?
#10
Keep T3D separate was still allow third party developer to focus on the main engine rather than wait for GREED. Plus most community members came to T3D under the GG name and even though GG is no longer doing active development, why switch to a different name and engine? To me it would add confusion to new member(s) and member(s) that may have left then came back. Staying with the T3D is still away to give credit to where credit is due. Just my two cents, but I'm NOT by any means saying GREED shouldn't happen. I personally feel it should be more of a genre kit to the main engine. Similar to the FPS template in the original TGE.
01/21/2014 (12:46 pm)
I don't have a problem but GREED was originally intended for FPS/TPS and alot of the feature would be gear toward those genre.Keep T3D separate was still allow third party developer to focus on the main engine rather than wait for GREED. Plus most community members came to T3D under the GG name and even though GG is no longer doing active development, why switch to a different name and engine? To me it would add confusion to new member(s) and member(s) that may have left then came back. Staying with the T3D is still away to give credit to where credit is due. Just my two cents, but I'm NOT by any means saying GREED shouldn't happen. I personally feel it should be more of a genre kit to the main engine. Similar to the FPS template in the original TGE.
#11
Second... Sourceforge? The only way I could contribute is if I contact the administrator and get added to the project, on GitHub I can just submit a pullrequest.
I just can't see myself in GREED, if it's what you want, then fine but it's too far away from original T3D.
If we are going to reboot the committee, then we should do it in the original spirit of T3D, and follow the path we wanted to go with T3D, IMO.
Also, I don't like the name GREED, it's odd and it sounds aggressive when it's written in capitals, thats just my opinion ofc.
01/21/2014 (1:11 pm)
I'm gonna say first of all, what sets GREED apart from T3D? The only thing I've heard is: integration of a bunch of features and that it will be FPS oriented.Second... Sourceforge? The only way I could contribute is if I contact the administrator and get added to the project, on GitHub I can just submit a pullrequest.
I just can't see myself in GREED, if it's what you want, then fine but it's too far away from original T3D.
If we are going to reboot the committee, then we should do it in the original spirit of T3D, and follow the path we wanted to go with T3D, IMO.
Also, I don't like the name GREED, it's odd and it sounds aggressive when it's written in capitals, thats just my opinion ofc.
#12
let there be 1 goal and let there be a copy of a copy
and let there be fail where fail is ment to be.
besides lets face it - all and evryone just wants the work that luis is doing = multiplatform support and the result will be
stock t3d with well just that, no improvements, nothing except teh abbility to go multiplatform and that is not putting the engine where it belongs.
Unlike others am not a illusionist and unlike some who pretend to contribute - am not as am already contributing.
Now i dont need to go in detail about WLE - lets just say this
i dont really like you guys from the bottom of my heart.
and Github = I can just submit pullrequests = how many did you famous ppl submit?
end of story and no this is no flame and neither rent
am just disgusted and done with this.
Greed will stay what it is and well @ the rest do as you wish
01/21/2014 (1:22 pm)
it doesnt matter - let there be 2 teamslet there be 1 goal and let there be a copy of a copy
and let there be fail where fail is ment to be.
besides lets face it - all and evryone just wants the work that luis is doing = multiplatform support and the result will be
stock t3d with well just that, no improvements, nothing except teh abbility to go multiplatform and that is not putting the engine where it belongs.
Unlike others am not a illusionist and unlike some who pretend to contribute - am not as am already contributing.
Now i dont need to go in detail about WLE - lets just say this
i dont really like you guys from the bottom of my heart.
and Github = I can just submit pullrequests = how many did you famous ppl submit?
end of story and no this is no flame and neither rent
am just disgusted and done with this.
Greed will stay what it is and well @ the rest do as you wish
#13
The only real structural/approach differences repo-side are an expanded authorization list for who can directly commit to a working branch, and the notion of a monthly review and fold-in of working branches. The intent being to embed peer-review and collaboration more directly in the process.
That being said, if the committee is rebooting: Great.
01/21/2014 (1:30 pm)
Actually Lukas, the setups pretty much the same. Explicitly used a git fork from T3D precisely for the purpose of cross-pollination where interests align. The only real structural/approach differences repo-side are an expanded authorization list for who can directly commit to a working branch, and the notion of a monthly review and fold-in of working branches. The intent being to embed peer-review and collaboration more directly in the process.
That being said, if the committee is rebooting: Great.
#14
I'd prefer Torque3D's core development to continue, and it continue to expand out it's reach and flexibility, it acting as a central point for specialist engines to web out from - like how Greed is slated as a specialized FPS build.
Sticking a fork in Torque3D and declaring it dead and declaring a FPS-centric engine it's future doesn't strike me as being helpful to people that don't want to make FPS games.
01/21/2014 (1:36 pm)
Well, that was definitely productive to the conversation.I'd prefer Torque3D's core development to continue, and it continue to expand out it's reach and flexibility, it acting as a central point for specialist engines to web out from - like how Greed is slated as a specialized FPS build.
Sticking a fork in Torque3D and declaring it dead and declaring a FPS-centric engine it's future doesn't strike me as being helpful to people that don't want to make FPS games.
#15
a new T3D specific website should focus the image of T3D.
01/21/2014 (1:41 pm)
I like to see T3D rebooted or relaunched with new logo and new theme, alsoa new T3D specific website should focus the image of T3D.
#16
As you are teh creator of the most wanted behaviours sauce
You should understand that it is in the best interest of all
to showcase the engine - callin it a FPS/RTS Engine was just to establish
a base for this, to create content and levels
see where this leads is to be able to turn on/off modules
so that ppl can decide if they wish to create a fps/tps/rts/whatever genre
but it needs a start and what better start could be made?
if not with fps/tps modules
See another reason why we took a new name was that GG officials have no
clue about their moddb/indiedb login stuff. Look teh Engine up in the database and you will see its still listed as being commercial and no real sign of it being MIT.
This is what confuses ppl, believe it or not but moddb/indiedb is a key point these days.
Well for what am writing this, no clue. As i see that ppl wont change their mind and at the end its only abour Luis work.
01/21/2014 (1:46 pm)
@JeffAs you are teh creator of the most wanted behaviours sauce
You should understand that it is in the best interest of all
to showcase the engine - callin it a FPS/RTS Engine was just to establish
a base for this, to create content and levels
see where this leads is to be able to turn on/off modules
so that ppl can decide if they wish to create a fps/tps/rts/whatever genre
but it needs a start and what better start could be made?
if not with fps/tps modules
See another reason why we took a new name was that GG officials have no
clue about their moddb/indiedb login stuff. Look teh Engine up in the database and you will see its still listed as being commercial and no real sign of it being MIT.
This is what confuses ppl, believe it or not but moddb/indiedb is a key point these days.
Well for what am writing this, no clue. As i see that ppl wont change their mind and at the end its only abour Luis work.
#17
i dont really like you guys from the bottom of my heart."
J0linar - im not going to derail this thread, but if u wish to discuss your issues with WLE with me, feel free to email me at pyoskowitz@winterleafentertainment.com
01/21/2014 (1:47 pm)
"Now i dont need to go in detail about WLE - lets just say thisi dont really like you guys from the bottom of my heart."
J0linar - im not going to derail this thread, but if u wish to discuss your issues with WLE with me, feel free to email me at pyoskowitz@winterleafentertainment.com
#18
I'd just like to make clear, I don't represent WLE, I speak as an individual and WLE does not share my opinions.
If you were to ask WLE, we'd rather see T3D die out and all of you come join us at OMNI!
Edit: I can see Paul chose to handle this in a professional way, you can disregard this off-topic piece
But then a bit off-topic why do you "from the bottom of your heart not like us"? Have WLE done anything except contributing to the community?
Personally I believe I contribute a lot, sure it's not the only thing I do, I have an agenda as well, but I'm generally active on the forums and I help new people out, and I have released a bunch of resources and tutorials.
Most of my work is RnD so it never gets finished, but you can find a couple of unfinished features on my GitHub repo free to download, and I'm working on a shared source project right now, read more on the blog page.
So I'm sorry but I get a little offended by you "not liking us" for no apparent reason and that I apparently "pretend to contribute". I'm sorry if I disgust you, I'll make sure to take a bath then.
I'm not saying I disagree with GREED, I just said that I personally can't identify myself with the project and I actually asked what the difference between GREED and T3D was, I didn't say anything bad about GREED, except for the name, I made a little comment on the name is that what opened your Pandoras box?
01/21/2014 (1:54 pm)
@J0linarI'd just like to make clear, I don't represent WLE, I speak as an individual and WLE does not share my opinions.
If you were to ask WLE, we'd rather see T3D die out and all of you come join us at OMNI!
Edit: I can see Paul chose to handle this in a professional way, you can disregard this off-topic piece
But then a bit off-topic why do you "from the bottom of your heart not like us"? Have WLE done anything except contributing to the community?
Personally I believe I contribute a lot, sure it's not the only thing I do, I have an agenda as well, but I'm generally active on the forums and I help new people out, and I have released a bunch of resources and tutorials.
Most of my work is RnD so it never gets finished, but you can find a couple of unfinished features on my GitHub repo free to download, and I'm working on a shared source project right now, read more on the blog page.
So I'm sorry but I get a little offended by you "not liking us" for no apparent reason and that I apparently "pretend to contribute". I'm sorry if I disgust you, I'll make sure to take a bath then.
I'm not saying I disagree with GREED, I just said that I personally can't identify myself with the project and I actually asked what the difference between GREED and T3D was, I didn't say anything bad about GREED, except for the name, I made a little comment on the name is that what opened your Pandoras box?
#20
Ok, friendly moderator warning out of the way, now on to business.
It's great to see people feeling the drive to contribute and help push the tech forward again. That's something we love to see here. We were discussing the possibility of opening more access to a qualified group of individuals this morning. Dave will be posting in this thread in a couple hours so I'll let him provide more details on that.
01/21/2014 (2:13 pm)
First let me take a moment to remind everyone to keep it civil. There's no reason for this thread to descend into personal attacks which its come dangerously close to a couple times.Ok, friendly moderator warning out of the way, now on to business.
It's great to see people feeling the drive to contribute and help push the tech forward again. That's something we love to see here. We were discussing the possibility of opening more access to a qualified group of individuals this morning. Dave will be posting in this thread in a couple hours so I'll let him provide more details on that.
Torque Owner Lukas Joergensen
WinterLeaf Entertainment
Wouldn't be too far-fetched to boot up a new steering committee tho, after all it's all a matter of cloning the repo and put it up under a new username or something like that.