New example terrains for Torque
by Duion · in Artist Corner · 09/08/2013 (5:52 pm) · 47 replies
For the next Torque version we need some new example terrains, the old desert is getting boring.
Actually we would need 2 terrains, one for the FPS module and one for the racing module, so one FPS map and one racing map.
On the Trello board so far only me and Dan Webb signed up for this task, but he argued that the community should decide what kind of terrain we need or want, so this is why I start this thread.
We can make suggestions or examples here and then maybe decide what we will use.
I made a start with a concept of the new default FPS terrain:
My concept with this is, to combine all different biome into one map, so you have island, beach, sand, grass, hills, cliffs, mountains, maybe snow on top. So you have all different locations near you to test things or place models and see how they look like in different locations. This is just a sketch so far, but if you like it I will make it nice and make some texture layers with base, macro, detail, normal with parallax for it.
For the racing map I did not make a sketch so far, but I would use the same textures as for the FPS map, to save some space.
But if someone has a better idea or suggestions you can present it here.
Actually we would need 2 terrains, one for the FPS module and one for the racing module, so one FPS map and one racing map.
On the Trello board so far only me and Dan Webb signed up for this task, but he argued that the community should decide what kind of terrain we need or want, so this is why I start this thread.
We can make suggestions or examples here and then maybe decide what we will use.
I made a start with a concept of the new default FPS terrain:
My concept with this is, to combine all different biome into one map, so you have island, beach, sand, grass, hills, cliffs, mountains, maybe snow on top. So you have all different locations near you to test things or place models and see how they look like in different locations. This is just a sketch so far, but if you like it I will make it nice and make some texture layers with base, macro, detail, normal with parallax for it.For the racing map I did not make a sketch so far, but I would use the same textures as for the FPS map, to save some space.
But if someone has a better idea or suggestions you can present it here.
About the author
http://www.duion.com - Human Paradigm Specialist
#2
I just don't get why we need two different terrains for the Racing and FPS maps.
Also, this thread (thanks Duion) is the perfect opportunity for the rest of the community to have a say in what goes in. I accused Duion (and the other steering committee members :P) of being a dictator, as I felt the community should drive these things. Not just the committee.
Don't make me look bad by deferring to the SC please guys! :)
09/08/2013 (9:19 pm)
Personally, I think having several different land types/climatic zones is a great idea, because then we can use it to test out our forests with. I don't think it needs to be an island though, but having a coastline would help with setting up oceans with.I just don't get why we need two different terrains for the Racing and FPS maps.
Also, this thread (thanks Duion) is the perfect opportunity for the rest of the community to have a say in what goes in. I accused Duion (and the other steering committee members :P) of being a dictator, as I felt the community should drive these things. Not just the committee.
Don't make me look bad by deferring to the SC please guys! :)
#3
09/08/2013 (10:54 pm)
I'd like to see a terrain which is not an Island and shows how big of a terrain you can have in Torque, this seems to be the question of a lot of newcomers "how big can i make the terrain blah blah WoW blah" also maybe some way of restricting movement without making it look weird so the player doesn't go running off the side of the World.
#4
A lot of newcomers ask about the terrain size simply because they think that a massive world = good game. But that really isn't the case. If someone really has an idea of what he is trying to accomplish, and is serious about it, I'm sure he can find out what the terrain size limit is.
Anyways. For an FPS, the max size of the terrain would be from 1 km^2 to 16 km^2, depending on how detailed you want to be. For a TPS, you could go a bit more extreme, as you won't be able to see as much detail as you could from a first person perspective, so something like 64 km^2 is possible. And for something like an RTS or a flight sim, they really shouldn't be worried about the terrain size, they could easily pull off something like 1024 km^2, possibly even more.
09/09/2013 (2:38 am)
@LukasA lot of newcomers ask about the terrain size simply because they think that a massive world = good game. But that really isn't the case. If someone really has an idea of what he is trying to accomplish, and is serious about it, I'm sure he can find out what the terrain size limit is.
Anyways. For an FPS, the max size of the terrain would be from 1 km^2 to 16 km^2, depending on how detailed you want to be. For a TPS, you could go a bit more extreme, as you won't be able to see as much detail as you could from a first person perspective, so something like 64 km^2 is possible. And for something like an RTS or a flight sim, they really shouldn't be worried about the terrain size, they could easily pull off something like 1024 km^2, possibly even more.
#5
But everything bigger will result in very big .ter files, so we have to skip these ideas.
We could build both in one map, but the racing map will likely contain some kind of road or race track build in the terrain also it will need to be bigger in size, while a FPS map needs to be small.
Otherwise you can still make a real big terrain and host it somewhere else to show people.
09/09/2013 (3:25 am)
The maps cannot be big in size, since we need to keep the repository small, so we cannot add big pieces of art. 1024x1024 should be max, I think for the FPS example map 512x512 is enough. Also we cannot have many big textures, so 3-4 layers should be aimed at. The racing map could be done with maybe 1024x1024 with 2 meter size for each pixel, so it will result in a 4 square kilometer map, which is quite big enough.But everything bigger will result in very big .ter files, so we have to skip these ideas.
We could build both in one map, but the racing map will likely contain some kind of road or race track build in the terrain also it will need to be bigger in size, while a FPS map needs to be small.
Otherwise you can still make a real big terrain and host it somewhere else to show people.
#6
For a fps map you want higher detail around the player, maybe look at the likes of valves halflife 2 lost cost for ideas.
09/09/2013 (11:06 am)
The .ter size is dependant mostly on the resolution of the terrain from the heightmap. A racing terrain can be much lower detailed on the terrain itself but with good views, as generally, due to the speed that vehicles move the high resolution of the mesh itself isnt required whereas a higher detail diffuse would be beneficial for the longer distance views.For a fps map you want higher detail around the player, maybe look at the likes of valves halflife 2 lost cost for ideas.
#7
512x512 terrain 1 square size is 0,768 MB,
1024x1024 terrain 1 square size is 3,145 MB
1024x1024 terrain 2 square size is also 3,145 MB.
I would suggest
1 FPS terrain 512x512, square size 1 is 0,768 MB
+1 Racing terrain 1024x1024, square size 2 is 3,145 MB
+2x basetex size 0,699 MB
+4 terrain layers with base, macro, detail, normal/parallax I could compress to 1,4 MB
=6,711 MB
So this is my smallest solution, since we need to save file size a little.
09/09/2013 (12:27 pm)
Yes, I already calculated through all:512x512 terrain 1 square size is 0,768 MB,
1024x1024 terrain 1 square size is 3,145 MB
1024x1024 terrain 2 square size is also 3,145 MB.
I would suggest
1 FPS terrain 512x512, square size 1 is 0,768 MB
+1 Racing terrain 1024x1024, square size 2 is 3,145 MB
+2x basetex size 0,699 MB
+4 terrain layers with base, macro, detail, normal/parallax I could compress to 1,4 MB
=6,711 MB
So this is my smallest solution, since we need to save file size a little.
#8
The racetrack circles the island and goes through a few different biomes and maybe even dodges debris from the lava. Also have areas where there is ash particles. Other areas are calmer.
Then under the island a secret entrance the descends into hell and has a large area where people fight each other and lava monsters and evil stuff. This could be a mission load example as well as you descend into hell. So I think the concept could mix the two.
09/09/2013 (2:04 pm)
A big island with an active volcano in the center. There is a natural source of water interacting with the volcano to produce a ring of fog around the center/base somewhat higher than sea level. Perhaps lava is dumping into the sea to produce a stream of steam.The racetrack circles the island and goes through a few different biomes and maybe even dodges debris from the lava. Also have areas where there is ash particles. Other areas are calmer.
Then under the island a secret entrance the descends into hell and has a large area where people fight each other and lava monsters and evil stuff. This could be a mission load example as well as you descend into hell. So I think the concept could mix the two.
#9
Great ideas, and thanks Duion for putting this together.
09/09/2013 (2:07 pm)
Quote:"how big can i make the terrain blah blah WoW blah"I especially agree with the blah WoW blah part.
Great ideas, and thanks Duion for putting this together.
#10
www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/22406
09/09/2013 (2:45 pm)
Check out the blog, my guess is this guy would be thrilled if his work were featured:www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/22406
#11
I think Demolishun's idea is best so far, that is creativity ;)
09/09/2013 (2:56 pm)
Andy has even replied to this topic, so he knows of this, but I think we need something more special here, not just a new empty desert like terrain.I think Demolishun's idea is best so far, that is creativity ;)
#12
I second the use of Andy's terrain stuff!
Demo: that sounds kind of like the Pacific demo ;).
09/09/2013 (5:00 pm)
Duion: I really like that layout for the island, though that sandy bit on the landbridge at the bottom is a bit odd. I'd turn it into more of a spit, with maybe a bit of a thicker islandy part near the end. Then it and the other island could form a sort of natural harbour where we could experiment with shallow water, coral... I dunno. Beach chairs.I second the use of Andy's terrain stuff!
Demo: that sounds kind of like the Pacific demo ;).
#13
09/09/2013 (5:04 pm)
Andy's terrain is very nice. It has many different environment. All of them much better than any small desert :o)
#14
So this is my entry, if you like it, I try to make it nice.
Otherwise others can sign up and present their entry.
09/09/2013 (5:45 pm)
This is just a sketch, quickly generated and painted over, my idea was to add paths so you can walk up the mountains, eventually some river and a shallow area where you can walk over to the island.So this is my entry, if you like it, I try to make it nice.
Otherwise others can sign up and present their entry.
#15
Couple suggestions:
1) River.
2) A cave to demonstrate the capacity to punch a hole in the terrain.
09/10/2013 (2:16 pm)
From a technical demonstration/more fully fleshed out testbed standpoint, I'd agree with multiple biomes, and angles, as well as the presence of waterblocks. Couple suggestions:
1) River.
2) A cave to demonstrate the capacity to punch a hole in the terrain.
#16
And yes about a river I thought also, should not be that hard.
09/10/2013 (2:20 pm)
Cave would need to build a model of it with extra textures, we would need to try to keep it simple and small filesize and in a way others can understand.And yes about a river I thought also, should not be that hard.
#17
09/10/2013 (3:28 pm)
And man eating hell fishes in the hot water pools. They eat you alive as the flesh is seared from your bones as you scream for help...
#18
09/11/2013 (2:23 am)
Gonna knock up a quick idea map today going off duion's general idea, getting a few different area's into one example map
#19
/threaten :p
09/11/2013 (2:06 pm)
i.imgur.com/rejEhjn.png figure that'd be enough to demonstrate/test against concave polysoup?/threaten :p
#20
09/11/2013 (2:25 pm)
You will need things to cover the hole, I used lots of rocks in my cave level. But at this point you already have a big cave model, with texturing, rocks or other cover models with textures and so on. We should not add too much art, since the repository is already very big. 
NiN-NiN
I think the issue might be what if the user has no need for sand or mountains.
Maybe it's silly to give too many options but I like the idea of a combined one and seperate ones for each type (Sand, grass etc)
Also I see this as being perfect for the racing terrain as well if the track is on the outskirts of the main terrain/island then you are going across multiple landscapes which is what normally happens in games like mario kart so i'd say it be great for that too :)
Maybe even a possible trail up the mountain too
But I like this idea and I can see it working for both types of gameplay but I think giving the user an option to select just one landscape as well is a good idea