Windows 8 Store apps (ARM/86/64) and Win Phone 8

#1 The issue is that (don't hang me up on it tho) the Windows Store only takes DirectX 11 applications. So a DirectX port is necessary.
MSDN article

There have been some work towards it but no one have ever finished a DirectX 11 port (it's a huge rewrite). It would be great to get it ported to DX11 tho.

mustafakorkmaz worked on a DX11 port (GitHub repo) that would be a place to start I guess.

#2 That is troublesome news. Win store only takes DX11 applications... I guess that our engine currently is not up to the task.

#3 Minecraft would not make it in the store either:
minecraft.net/stats

So it is no more troublesome than not being able to be in the Google Play store.

YMMV...

#4 YMMV is correct, but for me getting access to all what a Win 8 desktop can offer including the Win 8 store is very important.

I am targeting the windows machines and I do not even try to hide it. The biggest market for me is Windows machines(xp up to win 8).

Guess something has to be done about this missing DX11 thing at some time...

Google Play store? I do not make games for smart phones at this time :o)


Edit: the T3D engine does work on Win 8 as it is now. I have no issues running Torque 3D games as it is now(or develop on that platform). the issue is with the DX11 requirement for the win 8 store only.

#5 Thanks Lukas!!!

I will take a look at the links.

#6 Without support for win8 store, I really don't see the point as indie developer for the Windows market working with T3D any more...
And that sucks big time.... Because the engine is good, sadly I don't think I have the knowledge or time to take on the port myself..

#7

Quote:Without support for win8 store, I really don't see the point as indie developer for the Windows market working with T3D any more

Nothing prevent you from selling a game from your own website, steam or other portals. Hence all the customers can install and run your game on a win 8 machine.

It is not the windows 8 OS that does not support the DX9(also you can ship that with the game you sell). It is only the store itself that demands DX11 games(plenty of good games who sell well still will then not be sold in win 8 store but steam). The Good old games website sells a lot of games for use on windows.

All in all Torque 3D is a great engine for use on Windows machines... Hey I should know this, I develop and test on a Win 8 and Win 7 machine(my laptop and my desktop).

Also win 8 store is not going to replace steam, game companies own websites etc for now. BUT! it would be awesome to get T3D run on DX11 and it would be another option for expanding once market and potential revenue.

#8 Yes I know Torque 3D is a good engine I have used it since TGE 1.3 :)

But my target is the "app" market not a desktop application.
I understand now that Unity sadly is my option.

Ok. Thanks for the input and good luck.

#9 I thought the same thing Alienforce, would love to port it but unfortunately it is a complete rewrite of the GFX layer.

But the Win8 Store is really only useful for a few apps (like NetFlix, and even so, using the browser might still be easier) and for deploying to Microsoft Surface Pro (which runs Win8 Pro and not RT).
So I wouldn't worry too much about it, although at some point we will have to upgrade to DX11, to keep up with tech.

#10 Are these two goals mutually exclusive?

Quote:Win 8 store is very important

and

Quote:The biggest market for me is Windows machines(xp up to win 8).

What happens when you get T3D working with DX11? Unless you have a fall back for DX9 won't that make XP no longer supported? Or can DX11 work on XP, Vista? (I think it might on Vista, but I have no clue on XP).

#11 no DX11 won't work on XP machines or Vista.
Vista uses DX10

There are a lot of fake DX11 for XP & Vista installers out there.

#12 @Demolishun

That is very interesting points you are coming up with. That would make mirror development necessary I guess(different versions of engines used for the same game... eeeek!).

So DX11 is for win 7 and win 8 I guess. Back to the decision grid board again :o)

According to this Windows 8 now up to 4.27% market share, but not at Windows 7′s expense then the windows landscape looks like this:
XP 37.74 percent of the users
Vista 4.51 percent of the users
Win 7 44.85 percent of the users
Win 8 4.27 percent of the users

Now that make DX9 our best friend as T3D has DX9 as default and hence grant us access to more than 91.37 percent of the market(laptops and desktops).

For me DX11 is not suppose to replace DX9 it is more suppose to be an option like we have seen in many games. Also it seems that we can make DX11 fall back to DX9 shaders when needed... hmmmm

All in all DX9 is still the best friend an indie can have as that market is huge and potential. DX11 is cool but that is not the same as saying it is a must.


Now I have no clue about how Win store 8 is going to be in a year or two but Apple store seems like to drown in games and makes it very hard for indies to make a penny so perhaps it ain't that bad after all that the store is off limit for now.

DX9 is fine for now :o)

#13 The point of this thread was find out if there anyone who has managed to port T3D for Windows 8 "APP" platform. Everything else doesn't matter to me :) .. I actually see a future selling app´s from the Microsoft App store but that's maybe because I see Windows 8 as leap forward and don't struggle to hang on to yesterdays tech.

#14 If I were you I'd be more interested in the (ARM/64/86) part of your thread title - proper porting to ARM and x64 platforms would do far more good. The x64 part has some initial inroading already and seems to work fine. ARM not so much - that would probably be a lot of work.

Also, perhaps think about an "app" (hurray for that term) game launcher that can fire off both desktop and "app" games.

#15 Thanks again for the input guys.
I will try to see what I can do or not ;)
Have nice day.

#16 Win 8 IS a leap forward(for win machines). And if all you wish to do is Apps for Win 8 store then be it.

But DX9 is not old abandoned tech(just to make that clear).

You too :o)

#17 @Dwarf King,
Maybe my perception is all off, but back when Ubuntu converted to the stupid phone type interface I no longer wanted to use their default distribution. It was painful and I use the desktop with a mouse and keyboard. I understand that we are moving to mobile devices, but I have yet to own a PC that has a touch feature.

Now my understanding is Windows 8 is very similar to the Ubuntu interface in that it is designed around a touchscreen. I know I can switch to a more desktop like interface, but I also understand some things have to be done from the touch type interface in Windows 8. That sounds painful.

What I don't understand is why people think the touch style interface is so great. What is the draw? As a developer, user, game player I want the traditional windowing interface and I don't want the Ubuntu style or phone touch style interface on my desktop. Where does Win8 shine that other similar interfaces do not?

#18 @Demolishun no you can do everything from Desktop-mode in Win8 if that pleases you (I myself like the interface, I find it really quick to find the things I need in that interface even though I'm using the mouse aswell).

That touch style interface is really great for apps that benefits from taking up a fixed amount from the screen but when you aren't using them you don't want to see them, because they are easy to position and hide.
But apart from that there is nothing "special" about it, it have it's uses and it's limitations.

For example, I like the Win8 application for Skype, Netflix and Email (granted the Skype app lacks some crucial features, but that has nothing to do with the interface) because I like that the email app runs in the background and notifies me of new mails, and when I'm not writing mails it gets out of the way. I like it for NetFlix because I want a fullscreen experience when I'm watching movies, and when I'm not I want the window to get hidden completely, and for Skype because it can keep the conversations running while completely hidden (granted desktop apps can do these things aswell, but it's just a matter of course with the Win8 Apps)

I guess it could be fine for games aswell (you want an immersive experience while the game is running, but want to be able to minimize it easily for checking mails in loading screen etc.) but I don't like the Store tbh, would never install a game from the Store if I could get it by other means.

#19 Well here is how it works on my win 8 machine. I start up the machine and get a start menu screen. I click on desktop icon and get the usual desktop.

Now whenever I want to find anything I either click on the windows icon(I installed a plugin) in the lower left corner as usual or I tab the win button and start write what I need to find. It is fast and works like a charm. In other words you will hardly feel that this win 8 OS is designed around a touch interface(mostly just look and a few fun things like "tab the screen to open the CD folder" which is not needed).

Beside that I have not found anything that would change my workflow. The truth is that you hardly realize that this win 8 machine is a not a win 7 machine(except the insanely fast improvement in start up time).

Also the search time seems to have improved as well.

Now about the design then I too find this metro touch stuff design trend very annoying :o)

I only installed(upgraded to) win 8 pro on the laptop for testing, while I work mostly on my desktop where win 7 ultimate is installed.

A patch/upgrade will soon be release to address some of these issue.

All in all Win 8 is a fine OS and works well. It shines here:

1. It boots faster
2. the start menu search feature has been greatly improved.
3. People get a metro look which seems to be what people want now at days.
4. You can develop on you Win 8 machine and you know it works on Windows phones(hence one platform only).
5. With the win 8 pro version you get bitlocker now(you needed Win7 ultimate before to get access to this technology).

Perhaps others have something to add, but this is my experience for now.

#20 @Dwarf King,
Thanks for the review.

I saw something about Microsoft's issues with RT on LinkedIn. I searched and found this article:
www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/windows-rt-dead/

I thing the 500lb gorilla is learning they ain't king of the jungle anymore. I think this is healthy for the market and forcing specs such as DX11 for the app market on Windows 8 might not be a good thing in the future. I guess as always, wait and see.