Mich's Wish List
by Michael Perry · in iTorque 2D · 05/25/2012 (12:12 pm) · 53 replies
You know, I thought I would reverse the flow for this week's community hour. I wanted to create a post, but I wasn't sure how to frame the content. I don't think anyone has ever asked me what I want in an iTorque 2D update. Certainly, I never expected anyone, but I'm surprised no one has turned the table on me yet.
Why does my opinion even matter? Well, there are two reasons:
1. I am also a user of the engine. I work on prototypes, demos, and I have my own game. I'm just as aware of the shortcomings and strengths as you all are.
2. I'm the product/engine lead. I have a vision for the technology. It's safe to say that iTorque 2D is "my baby". Don't tell my wife I said that, she won't let me hold my son tonight =/
With that in mind, the following is my wish list for iTorque 2D. This list should not be interpreted as a road map, but you might get a glimpse at what I will push for any chance I get in a meeting.
So, what do you think? Agree, disagree, blind rage?
Why does my opinion even matter? Well, there are two reasons:
1. I am also a user of the engine. I work on prototypes, demos, and I have my own game. I'm just as aware of the shortcomings and strengths as you all are.
2. I'm the product/engine lead. I have a vision for the technology. It's safe to say that iTorque 2D is "my baby". Don't tell my wife I said that, she won't let me hold my son tonight =/
With that in mind, the following is my wish list for iTorque 2D. This list should not be interpreted as a road map, but you might get a glimpse at what I will push for any chance I get in a meeting.
- Box 2D. Honestly, who doesn't have this as #1 in their list.
- Sprite batch rendering. This should be in the engine. It's time for iT2D to compete in the performance realm.
- Faster tile maps. I think tile maps are hugely important to 2D games. iT2D's needs to run 400% faster.
- Replace Carbon with Cocoa completely. The writing is on the wall. Mountain Lion is going deprecate almost all Carbon.
- Updated editors. With new behavior capabilities and Box 2D, you gotta update the editors. A new skin would also be nice.
- General behavior extensions. Behaviors haven't grown in a while. I want them to do more, like talk to each other via signals.
- Large behavior library. I want over 200 behaviors publicly available, whether that's in the installer, on TDN, or in the store.
- Leaner game project hierarchy. iT2D is already lighter than T2D. I want it to go even further.
- New demos. As much as I love RainyDay, it's time to retire it.
- New tutorials. If you are shocked by this entry, you must not know me.
- Support for more file formats, like Tiled, Zwoptex, and TexturePacker. This is mainly for the sake of the product, not necessarily for myself. I want to make it easier for users to port their games from other engines which support those file formats.
So, what do you think? Agree, disagree, blind rage?
About the author
Programmer.
#2
05/25/2012 (12:27 pm)
You forgot World Peace and larger donuts. :P 
#3
05/25/2012 (12:31 pm)
+1 on better tilemaps. 
#4
- Enhanced text - shadows, outlines in different colors
- Better loading times
- Promotion of games made with iT2D on the "front page" - a user coming to the site and checking out those current games isn't getting a feeling that anyone is making any new games. You could rotate the games, have a game of the week etc etc
05/25/2012 (2:51 pm)
- Improved text rendering - it's not very pretty at all, most of the time now we render text natively as it is much easier to read at smaller sizes- Enhanced text - shadows, outlines in different colors
- Better loading times
- Promotion of games made with iT2D on the "front page" - a user coming to the site and checking out those current games isn't getting a feeling that anyone is making any new games. You could rotate the games, have a game of the week etc etc
#5
The promotion part has nothing to do with the engine itself, but I like the suggestion a lot. It's good for the community and website, but not so much for the actual tech.
05/25/2012 (2:54 pm)
@Scott - The text is not a super big priority for me since I would use bitmaps for my fonts in a game. I agree with the better loading times, but that is going to come naturally because of other things in my list. The promotion part has nothing to do with the engine itself, but I like the suggestion a lot. It's good for the community and website, but not so much for the actual tech.
#6
My only suggestion would be to look into including support for additional compressed audio formats, because having to use .wav files for anything besides music is a pain in the file size.
05/25/2012 (3:46 pm)
That's a pretty thorough list.My only suggestion would be to look into including support for additional compressed audio formats, because having to use .wav files for anything besides music is a pain in the file size.
#8
05/25/2012 (6:04 pm)
I would like to see any improvements for iT2D to make their way into T2D(TGB). 
#9
I know those are on the meta level, but are things I want nonetheless, even more than Box2D.
05/25/2012 (7:27 pm)
- API and Torquescript cohesion among Torque products.
- Integration of engines. Really this thing of different engines for each plataform is near obsolete.
I know those are on the meta level, but are things I want nonetheless, even more than Box2D.
#10
1. Dedicated to 2D development
2. Full source
3. Powerful editor suite
4. Flexible scripting language
Your suggestion is not bad, but it would not be on my list of wants.
05/25/2012 (9:36 pm)
@Novack - Keep in mind I wrote my wish list focused on a single engine. I like that it is dedicated to 2D development and I would not want any 3D capabilities for myself. Any enhancements would have to be cohesive with the strengths:1. Dedicated to 2D development
2. Full source
3. Powerful editor suite
4. Flexible scripting language
Your suggestion is not bad, but it would not be on my list of wants.
#11
05/25/2012 (10:16 pm)
Your list, your rules. 
#12
05/25/2012 (10:26 pm)
On my list of file formats for support would be bmFont (as output from the bmGlyph app). That would take care of the text part quite nicely. I've got a t2dclass for that, but its for my hacked-up version :D. Lemme see about remaking it for stock 1.5 this weekend. (got it here)
#13
I'd be fine with retiring the current UFT system in Torque, implementing Cocos2D's format for loading a bitmap font spec, and at some later point adding libFreeType.
05/25/2012 (11:21 pm)
It looks like bmGlyph was made by someone who didn't know about GlyphDesigner. Both seem to use the same output (Cocos2D at least, Sparrow and EZGUI formats are others supported by GD). You normally don't output directly from Glyph Designer directly to your engine; you export the bitmap and drop it into TexturePacker, then dither it down to 16-bit if you want to PVR it and output a more optimised sprite sheet with fonts and other graphics.I'd be fine with retiring the current UFT system in Torque, implementing Cocos2D's format for loading a bitmap font spec, and at some later point adding libFreeType.
#14
Also, this might be out of your hands but can we make stuff happen faster... it took 7 months (maybe, its not actually out yet) to get the 1.5 to 1.5.1 update...lol while the boys at the will-not-name engine got daily builds.
I think we are all pretty good at estimating how long GG get stuff done by now :). Half the stuff on that list was annnouced over a year or two ago. That list up there would take about 14 months. Can I get a over or under on this?
05/25/2012 (11:56 pm)
Great list! I want everything on that wish list.Also, this might be out of your hands but can we make stuff happen faster... it took 7 months (maybe, its not actually out yet) to get the 1.5 to 1.5.1 update...lol while the boys at the will-not-name engine got daily builds.
I think we are all pretty good at estimating how long GG get stuff done by now :). Half the stuff on that list was annnouced over a year or two ago. That list up there would take about 14 months. Can I get a over or under on this?
#15
I can't wait to hear what will make it in and when.
I also always love to hear about you and Melv discussing the engine. Makes me want to get even more involved in the community.
05/27/2012 (12:48 am)
awesome list mich!I can't wait to hear what will make it in and when.
I also always love to hear about you and Melv discussing the engine. Makes me want to get even more involved in the community.
#16
05/27/2012 (5:57 am)
@Johnny makes a good point, the release schedule really needs a turbo boost.
#17
05/27/2012 (1:30 pm)
@David - I also liked hearing about melv and michael discussing the engine. They used to do that on a regular basis but then just stopped *shrug*, now we get weekly "lets make the users create content for us" posts. 
#18
ME! I've probably avoided physics-based games because of Torque's current lack of robust physics, but also the majority of my game prototypes and plans for future games don't rely heavily on physics. Shmup, strategy, RPG, puzzle, word-game - none of these need physics and these are exactly the kind of games that work well in 2D or on touch screens.
I would echo Scott's call for better text handling. Using bitmap fonts isn't a viable option at all, you can't localize them, you can't change the font size and you'd have to write your own kerning code for any non-monospaced fonts which basically means re-writing Torque's current text engine. It's impossible to release a multi-language Torque game now because the text handling is so bad, and this is VERY important. If your game doesn't support Chinese then you're ignoring the world's biggest mobile games market. If you game isn't localized into European languages then you won't get featured by Apple in their local app stores.
I've had to stick with bitmap style 'hard edge' fonts so far because Torque just can't draw anti-aliased fonts well. This really limits the graphical range of my games. This is a much bigger problem for me than physics right now.
Also, I don't use behaviors. I'm sure they're useful in a multi-person team where the coder wants to give the artists/designers some controls over the game via the editor, but since I am the coder/designer/artist on my games I don't need user-friendly behavior tabs in the editor. Anything that can be done with behaviors can already be done with script so they seem a little redundant in my situation.
Apart from those issues, I agree with the rest of what's on your list though, particularly the performance related parts.
05/27/2012 (7:50 pm)
"Box 2D. Honestly, who doesn't have this as #1 in their list."ME! I've probably avoided physics-based games because of Torque's current lack of robust physics, but also the majority of my game prototypes and plans for future games don't rely heavily on physics. Shmup, strategy, RPG, puzzle, word-game - none of these need physics and these are exactly the kind of games that work well in 2D or on touch screens.
I would echo Scott's call for better text handling. Using bitmap fonts isn't a viable option at all, you can't localize them, you can't change the font size and you'd have to write your own kerning code for any non-monospaced fonts which basically means re-writing Torque's current text engine. It's impossible to release a multi-language Torque game now because the text handling is so bad, and this is VERY important. If your game doesn't support Chinese then you're ignoring the world's biggest mobile games market. If you game isn't localized into European languages then you won't get featured by Apple in their local app stores.
I've had to stick with bitmap style 'hard edge' fonts so far because Torque just can't draw anti-aliased fonts well. This really limits the graphical range of my games. This is a much bigger problem for me than physics right now.
Also, I don't use behaviors. I'm sure they're useful in a multi-person team where the coder wants to give the artists/designers some controls over the game via the editor, but since I am the coder/designer/artist on my games I don't need user-friendly behavior tabs in the editor. Anything that can be done with behaviors can already be done with script so they seem a little redundant in my situation.
Apart from those issues, I agree with the rest of what's on your list though, particularly the performance related parts.
#19
Our contests are for community involvement. They have nothing to do with creating content for us (unlike the Activision content, for example, where they own all entry IP). Everyone who makes something owns their IP. We're not harvesting content from anyone. The engineers are working on the engine, but we're also working on the community.
Just wanted to mention that before someone took his frustrations with the release times and ran with it. We've seen innocuous comments run wild before.
05/28/2012 (9:11 am)
I just wanted to clear up a misconception that could be read into Johnny's post above:Quote:now we get weekly "lets make the users create content for us" posts."
Our contests are for community involvement. They have nothing to do with creating content for us (unlike the Activision content, for example, where they own all entry IP). Everyone who makes something owns their IP. We're not harvesting content from anyone. The engineers are working on the engine, but we're also working on the community.
Just wanted to mention that before someone took his frustrations with the release times and ran with it. We've seen innocuous comments run wild before.
#20
I have enough to probably last about a month or two. They are all very tech heavy (obviously), but is that something you would like to see each week?
05/29/2012 (6:28 am)
@Johnny - I have been stockpiling several conversations and e-mails between Melv and I. I think they would make really good blogs. Once I can get the 1.5.1 preview out the door, I can actually start posting then each Friday.I have enough to probably last about a month or two. They are all very tech heavy (obviously), but is that something you would like to see each week?
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