Torque vs. xxxx
by CGSJeff · in General Discussion · 09/06/2011 (3:25 pm) · 10 replies
I've done some research, but I'd like to hear it from the proverbial horses mouth. First, a little back ground on me....I'll keep it short, I promise.
I've been a software developer for 17 years and have coded in everything from classic ASP (VBScript) on your basic ecommerce solutions to extremely robust applications using C, C++, Java, etc. I'm not so much a heretic as I am a dev that went to where the work was. So feel free to throw out the jargon as you see fit. When it comes to coding, you won't be talking over my head. However when it comes to design type topics, gfx and the like, I'm not a total loss, but take it easy on me.
The question that I have is, why would someone choose to develope using Torque over another script, such as DarkBASIC? Forgive me if I've compared apples to oranges, but that's one of the reseaons why I'm here. I'm new to the game creation arena and would like to learn as much as I can.
I've been a software developer for 17 years and have coded in everything from classic ASP (VBScript) on your basic ecommerce solutions to extremely robust applications using C, C++, Java, etc. I'm not so much a heretic as I am a dev that went to where the work was. So feel free to throw out the jargon as you see fit. When it comes to coding, you won't be talking over my head. However when it comes to design type topics, gfx and the like, I'm not a total loss, but take it easy on me.
The question that I have is, why would someone choose to develope using Torque over another script, such as DarkBASIC? Forgive me if I've compared apples to oranges, but that's one of the reseaons why I'm here. I'm new to the game creation arena and would like to learn as much as I can.
#2
The Getting Started section and documentation are great. In all honesty, I had pretty much made up my mind to at least give Torque a try before starting this thread, but I guess I needed that extra little push.
Thanks again Novack! I'll definitely see you around the community!
09/07/2011 (6:04 am)
Hi Novack, and thanks for the overview. You shed some light on things for me. As far as specific questions, I have yet to come up with any, but believe me, I'm a forum whore, so I'll throw them out there.The Getting Started section and documentation are great. In all honesty, I had pretty much made up my mind to at least give Torque a try before starting this thread, but I guess I needed that extra little push.
Thanks again Novack! I'll definitely see you around the community!
#3
09/07/2011 (6:58 am)
My pleasure! Will be cool to have you around here :) 
#4
That said, imo access to the source is an invaluable, as it adds a level of flexibility that isn't available (at a remotely similar or reasonable cost to hobbyist and starter indies) with many other engines.
Also, at the risk of driving this down to just a pure money thing at the current price point I think its worth getting just for its educational value on how (mostly) the various parts of game/game-engine fit together and how things are done in general.
But putting the engine itself aside, one of the main reasons I stick with torque over other engines is simply the community and the innumerable 'little things' that go in around here not to mention the vast wealth of knowledge in the community, personally I have yet to see any other community which has such a collection of gifted individuals who are willing to share their time and often their works with the rest of the community.
09/07/2011 (7:21 am)
I'll say what I've always said, the best engine is the one that best fits your working style, and allows you to be productive.That said, imo access to the source is an invaluable, as it adds a level of flexibility that isn't available (at a remotely similar or reasonable cost to hobbyist and starter indies) with many other engines.
Also, at the risk of driving this down to just a pure money thing at the current price point I think its worth getting just for its educational value on how (mostly) the various parts of game/game-engine fit together and how things are done in general.
But putting the engine itself aside, one of the main reasons I stick with torque over other engines is simply the community and the innumerable 'little things' that go in around here not to mention the vast wealth of knowledge in the community, personally I have yet to see any other community which has such a collection of gifted individuals who are willing to share their time and often their works with the rest of the community.
#5
Been playing with the demo, it aint bad, but meh, the playermodels are still crap and the animations non existant
09/07/2011 (11:31 am)
this place is dead , used to be heaving back in 2004- 2006, then came the $1000 T3D hike, and TGEA adopters got bent over big time.Been playing with the demo, it aint bad, but meh, the playermodels are still crap and the animations non existant
#6
Over 10 new resources (very steady rate since we reopened)
40 new blogs
Four weeks of Community Hour
A steady 35 people in the IRC channel
Faster growth rate and higher quality posts in the forums
More engine updates than last year
I dunno Jojimbo, things are looking pretty lively to me.
09/07/2011 (1:45 pm)
Hmm, checking stats for the past 30 days...Over 10 new resources (very steady rate since we reopened)
40 new blogs
Four weeks of Community Hour
A steady 35 people in the IRC channel
Faster growth rate and higher quality posts in the forums
More engine updates than last year
I dunno Jojimbo, things are looking pretty lively to me.
#7
But, back on-topic... I think you've already established that the technology is sound. T3D is a great engine and it sounds like there's some really good stuff coming in 1.2. As has been mentioned above, one of the greatest assets (if not *the* greatest asset) that GarageGames has is the community.
We posted a blog some time back explaining that we went to 'the other side' (specifically, Unity) for a while from the end of last year for a few months - the problems that TorquePowered hit last year really shook us. Unity's community is *massive* - that's to be expected, they have a huge user-base. However, with the exception of a few helpful members, it is predominantly made up of elitist attitudes and kids wanting to make an MMO.
When we made the decision to come back to the garage, it really did feel like we were coming 'home' (corny, but true) - after all, we'd been here for 5-6 years up to the point where we defected... If anything, I think it's *better* than it ever has been. There's always people willing to help out with problems and as Mich has pointed out above, there's a lot of activity on the blogs and resources side of the community.
...I wouldn't want to be anywhere else :)
09/08/2011 (3:45 am)
I'm not sure if the quality of the *stock* art is a good measure of how good an engine is (for the record I think the t3d soldier is a great example and comes with some really good animations).But, back on-topic... I think you've already established that the technology is sound. T3D is a great engine and it sounds like there's some really good stuff coming in 1.2. As has been mentioned above, one of the greatest assets (if not *the* greatest asset) that GarageGames has is the community.
We posted a blog some time back explaining that we went to 'the other side' (specifically, Unity) for a while from the end of last year for a few months - the problems that TorquePowered hit last year really shook us. Unity's community is *massive* - that's to be expected, they have a huge user-base. However, with the exception of a few helpful members, it is predominantly made up of elitist attitudes and kids wanting to make an MMO.
When we made the decision to come back to the garage, it really did feel like we were coming 'home' (corny, but true) - after all, we'd been here for 5-6 years up to the point where we defected... If anything, I think it's *better* than it ever has been. There's always people willing to help out with problems and as Mich has pointed out above, there's a lot of activity on the blogs and resources side of the community.
...I wouldn't want to be anywhere else :)
#8
UDK and CE3 have those people as well, and it annoys me somewhat. Take everything slow, you aren't going to be making the next WoW while you're just learning the engine (and you really shouldn't be doing that at that point or really at all unless you have a large team to maintain it.).
This. If this were true then powerful engines like Torque and C4 would be garbage just because they didn't hire AAA modellers. I have to say, UDK's default art looks kinda bad as it's from UT3. :P
09/08/2011 (5:34 pm)
Quote:However, with the exception of a few helpful members, it is predominantly made up of elitist attitudes and kids wanting to make an MMO.
UDK and CE3 have those people as well, and it annoys me somewhat. Take everything slow, you aren't going to be making the next WoW while you're just learning the engine (and you really shouldn't be doing that at that point or really at all unless you have a large team to maintain it.).
Quote:I'm not sure if the quality of the *stock* art is a good measure of how good an engine is (for the record I think the t3d soldier is a great example and comes with some really good animations).
This. If this were true then powerful engines like Torque and C4 would be garbage just because they didn't hire AAA modellers. I have to say, UDK's default art looks kinda bad as it's from UT3. :P
#9
09/09/2011 (12:29 pm)
The reason that the other engine communities are less cool than Garage Games is because they don't have guys like Steve Acaster, Guy Allard, Michael Hall, Robert Fritzen, Fyodor Osokin, Bloodknight, E.B. and many many others who are always tossing out great resources and excellent advice and help to the newer members. People like them keep the community vibrant and strong by keeping the less experienced members from getting discouraged through the rough spots in the game development journey. Without these guys and the helpful staff I probably would have moved on long ago, but now I've got a game at about 90% feature complete and ready to move to art and level building - thanks to the helpful attitude and solid knowledge and experience available through the community here. 
#10
On the technical side, I wonder when, if ever, Unity will figure out how to do real time shadows. I read a post on their forum last year where one of their most prominent members (who later became a moderator of said forum) said that real time shadows are not used in any commercial games or any other engines. He said that any real time shadows you (the original poster) see are faked. The sheer comedy of displays of ignorance are the only thing good about those forums.
09/10/2011 (12:12 pm)
Quote:However, with the exception of a few helpful members, it is predominantly made up of elitist attitudes and kids wanting to make an MMO.Truer words have never been spoken. I said it back when I left the Unity forums back in 2010 that their "community" is the worst I've ever seen. Both in terms of skill level and attitude. This vs. That engine threads are rampant, all filled with people who have no real programming knowledge making ridiculous claims as, "Real programmers use Unity," and, "Torque is only good for first person shooters." Sad really.
On the technical side, I wonder when, if ever, Unity will figure out how to do real time shadows. I read a post on their forum last year where one of their most prominent members (who later became a moderator of said forum) said that real time shadows are not used in any commercial games or any other engines. He said that any real time shadows you (the original poster) see are faked. The sheer comedy of displays of ignorance are the only thing good about those forums.
Torque 3D Owner Novack
CyberianSoftware
Indeed you're rather comparing apples to oranges :)
Torque is not an script language, it is a framework for professional game development. The indie part comes with its history and price tag, but dont be confused, it is a very vast, complex and powerful piece of software.
It indeed includes an scripting language, that will let you develop or prototype much faster than expected on the C++ side of the engine. Think of Torque as an engine, a powerful engine, and torquescript will enable you to model your own vehicle for it.
Now being what it is, Torque has many aspects, so for furher talking would be easier if you post specific questions.
However let me tell you this: if you have a serious software development background, you'll be much better with Torque than with almost any other game development framework out there. It let you access to the source code (so you'll be free), has a nice documentation (always improving), and a wonderful community to back you up.
Take a look at the T3D product page for a quick overview. Also, the getting started section of that page has some points that will clarify how torque does its magic.
Hope it helps a bit.