Torque 2D Progress?

#1 This is the most recent update I know of:
www.torquepowered.com/community/blog/view/19477/4#comments

From what I read here, T2D will utilize C# within the VS IDE?

#2 Yeah, I remember that update from... almost 6 months ago? It says there that the team would confirm the Q1 release date in coming months. So, can we get some kind of confirmation from the team? Is it on track, off track?

#3 C'mon, don't exaggerate; its only been 5 months.

#4

Quote:
Bad news must be delivered immediately, good news can wait.

I think the release is going be VERY good, because we sure have been waiting a while.

#5 I'll wait an additional 6 months if it means the new engine works well across all hardware and for all versions of Windows -- using a real DirectX renderer.

Some of the old stuff in there from the Tribes 2 era just... doesn't work so well anymore.

No rush guys! Quality product = win at life.

#6 C#!?
So I'm studying TorqueScript for what?

#7 Who's demanding a rushed release?
An occasional status report would be nice.

#8

Quote:
C#!?
So I'm studying TorqueScript for what?

Quoted for agreement...

Quote:
Who's demanding a rushed release?
An occasional status report would be nice.

...again.

I honestly don't care how long T2D takes. I understand that it's a huge undertaking.

What I do care about is TP staff indicating that it will developed transparently, development blogs will keep us in the loop, etc. Then not hearing anything for 6 months. It raises concern that T2D is going to be scrapped and that's something I'd much rather know before I start new projects.

#9 You guys have said what I came to say.

Take your time, guys, we want a good product, but PLEASE keep us informed. If it's on track, great, if it's off the rails, we need to know that. I made the decision the wait for it because I estimated that it would take at least a year of effort to get any kind of similar functionality in a home brewed engine. But if it's going to be vaporware, then I need to plan accordingly.

We don't give a shit about spiffy demo videos, don't overthink the updates, just tell us what you're up to -- give us a sense of which milestones you've reached and which you have left. Something, anything, seriously.

#10 I only want TorqueScript support. I don't care of all the other add...

#11 Hey everyone. I just wanted to pop my head in on this thread. We are still working on Torque 2D and it's currently in a complicated, but very exciting state. Whether or not it's on track is still a bit hard to tell because of a few major variables that are in flight and the distance of the target ( Q1 2011 was the annouced range back in Q1 2010 ).

We don't want to share too much in the public because we don't want to give up the flexibility we need right now and then be handcuffed in order to keep promises. That's where the silence is coming from. Also, there are some key strategic pieces that we aren't willing to share in the public yet.

Here's some speculation points that I can share (unfortunatly there isn't a lot of new news here):
1) There is a major c# component
2) There is a major push to support many platforms better than anyone else has ever done before. There are so many people building the next platform and it's hard to know who will win. This framework will help us support many, many, platforms if the market and business model allows us to support that many. The term platform is getting broader. Thinking in dozens of platforms isn't out of the question for the next three years.
3) Backwards compatibility with TGB 2009 is not a major focus
4) 3D is still very important for 2D games

Hope that helps. Sorry I don't have anything more concrete for you.

#12 You had me at"exciting state".

#13 Thanks for the update!

#14 I'm so curious about the major C# component!

#15 This sounds very exciting!!!

But I'm still a bit concerned... is TorqueScript going the way of the dodo bird? Gone, kaput, terminated when Torque2D "2011" is released? Maybe this been answered before, or hinted at, but I would feel better with some current confirmation, yes or no.

I understand that InstantAction is being quiet about some proprietary things, and as always, thank you Torque team/staff for keeping us all informed as much as you can, as often as you can. We appreciate it more than you might imagine. :)

Basically, I would like to have a better sense about TorqueScript's "future". After a few months of teaching myself TS from the ground up, and alot of exciting progress, I'm finally "comfortable" with the language. I'd now like to know whether my skills will be applicable down the road, or if this "major C# component" will spell the end of TorqueScript, making it necessary to program all the glue and gears (everything behind the visual editor) using C# instead of TS.

Can anybody give me a rough answer on this? Maybe just a hint? Anything to keep me motivated to studying and improving my TorqueScript knowledge?

#16 If TS goes away, I assume the new environment will include all of the TS functions. C# is not that different from TS; except TS is a non-disciplined, non-declaration wide open crap script that gets us into all kinds of trouble. Google C# code and you will see how similar it looks. The power of TS is really in the functions that allow us to interface with the engine. I can't imagine that part of it going away simply because T2D utilizes C# and a professional grade IDE.

#17 There will no longer be any TorqueScript when we make the move to C#.

That said, they both share a common C-style syntax so it won't be hard to make the switch if you have invested time into learning TorqueScript.

#18

Quote:@Kevin: "The power of TS is really in the functions that allow us to interface with the engine. I can't imagine that part of it going away simply because T2D utilizes C# and a professional grade IDE."

Interesting point Kevin. If I understand what you're hinting at, the next T2D might have similar "functions" that we can use, similar to those in TorqueScript, but more cleanly integrated and compiled using C#... basically a whole set of spatial, collision, physics, scene management, and other functions that integrate with the visual builder, whatever form that builder becomes in the future release.

I realize that this is a rather novice-sounding post. I don't have a lick of experience using C#, at least not yet. Presumably I will need to learn now that TS is destined to expire. I definitely support the idea of a cleaner, faster, more disciplined "scripting" language to glue everything together. I already knew that IF I completed a game using 100% TorqueScript, I would probably need to hire a C#/C++ contractor to clean up and optimize the more intensive functions and processing routines.

That being said, it's exactly the built-in TS functions that make it possible for me (an independent game developer without formal C#/C++ training) to actually bring a game concept from dream to reality. If all of those functions die along with TS, and are not replaced or mimicked in T2D 2011, suddenly Torque2D is not a realistic option for me. If I need to learn detailed C# code to write custom functions that flip, rotate, move, sense collisions, etc. then I will be forced to abandon Torque, because simply put, I don't have the time to devote to that kind of solo development.

Quote:@Matt: "There will no longer be any TorqueScript when we make the move to C#."

Thank you very much for the confirmation Matt. I am relieved to have this confirmation, even if I now face a turning point. On that note, do you (or anybody else reading this thread) have a suggestion for the question "What now?" Is there any sense in continuing my game development using TorqueScript, with the assumption that I can "import" my functions into the future T2D and then rewrite them using C#? Should I just start learning C# now? I really don't want to stop my game development to begin hashing out some code that won't yet show me results inside a game engine like TGB.

Basically, I'm just pondering what the smartest, most relevant plan is for developers like myself, in this gap period between TGB and T2D 2011.

Thank you all for the advice, tips, suggestions, etc!

#19 Well I'll be using 1.7.5 for at least the next two games... my entire casual puzzle adventure framework is written in torquescript, and I don't suspect I'll feel like rewriting it in order to do sequels of the game we're now finishing up.

I've always liked TorqueScript (for oh... say a decade?)... it allows me to write horrible, horrible code... global variables flying all over the place. I can't say it has forced me to learn good habits, but I like it.

I've also always been tempted to just write a nice lean DirectX renderer and tie TorqueScript TO it. (I don't much use the TGB editor anyway).

The focus on lots and lots of platforms for T2D though... is a nice path, I think. Given the two new tablets announced recently, one with webOS (HP) and the other Chrome OS... that whole tablet market is getting mighty interesting.

After these next two games I'll probably break down and re-learn how to make reasonable code... and at long last give up TorqueScript. I'm still a GG* fanboy so I'll probably pick up T2D then. :D

-Tim

* - Always and Forever GarageGames. :p

#20 There will be an equivalent level of functionality exposed to the C# gameplay code.

A big goal of ours is to enable users to focus as much as possible on writing gameplay code instead of worrying about the underlying plumbing.

That said, I will always recommend that if you are serious about developing your current project, you keep doing it on the technology that you have on hand rather than delaying it in hopes that the technology that is coming later will make you more productive.

Professional studios do this all the time...they will branch their technology base at the beginning of the project and will only merge in new fixes and features after a lot of careful consideration. It is extremely rare that they will switch technology bases on a project that is under real production.

It is sad how many projects I have seen fail primarily because they were constantly chasing new tech =(