Refund
by Matt H. · in General Discussion · 08/15/2009 (8:38 am) · 10 replies
My brother and I, who are both in our 30's, have wanted to make a video game for a long time now. We're sick of expensive prices for games that are fun for 5 minutes, or not at all.
We both consider ourselves designers and directors, not programmers. Before we found Torque, we had plans to hire a programmer.
Alas, we found Torque and it excited us because it promised to let us make our game for any platform, without having to be programmers. I guess I should of done more research, and not taken the Garage Games website at face value. Maybe I should of read through some forum posts that also has people wondering why GG dosn't make it clear that to make anything other than 'Pong' you have to have some serious C++ under your belt.
I'm not dogging GG. I just think they are over simplifying their product on their website. I'm not saying they are doing this on purpose to entice people into buying it, but that is what happened to me. I have spent $800 on a product that isn't nearly as easy to use as advertised. I work in the service industry. I don't have $800 to waste.
I would like a refund.
We both consider ourselves designers and directors, not programmers. Before we found Torque, we had plans to hire a programmer.
Alas, we found Torque and it excited us because it promised to let us make our game for any platform, without having to be programmers. I guess I should of done more research, and not taken the Garage Games website at face value. Maybe I should of read through some forum posts that also has people wondering why GG dosn't make it clear that to make anything other than 'Pong' you have to have some serious C++ under your belt.
I'm not dogging GG. I just think they are over simplifying their product on their website. I'm not saying they are doing this on purpose to entice people into buying it, but that is what happened to me. I have spent $800 on a product that isn't nearly as easy to use as advertised. I work in the service industry. I don't have $800 to waste.
I would like a refund.
#2
[citation needed]
08/15/2009 (10:28 am)
Quote:it promised to let us make our game for any platform, without having to be programmers
[citation needed]
#3
First paragraph.
"Torque Game Builder is the world's most powerful and easy-to-use 2D game engine. Built atop the common Torque core architecture, it offers many of the features of our cutting-edge 3D game engine, but customized for 2D gameplay. With developments paths that allow publishing to Windows, Mac, Xbox 360, Wii, iPhone, and even web platforms, your game will reach the widest possible audience. And with its intuitive and powerful editor, anyone can jump into game creation with little to no prior knowledge ."
Also on the main page.
"Most game functions can be programmed in Torquescript..."
One of the main reasons we were excited and purchased this program was because we wanted to develop for the iPhone. Can you develop an iPhone game just using Torquescript? Sure, if you want a game a 9 year old would enjoy.
I was ok with using Torquescript. But as soon as I started researching how to structure my new iPhone app I ran across many posts about the problems people are having with Torquscript and the iPhone.
The ease of use of Torquescript was the main selling factor in my decision to buy iTGB and also the Adventure Kit, totaling $800.
If it was clear upfront that I would have to have a very solid understanding of C++, I would of gone with my first idea of hiring a programmer.
Maybe I can use TGB down the line for something. We still intend to develop a game. But this experience has left a bitter taste in my mouth, and a giant hole in my wallet.
08/15/2009 (11:59 am)
http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque-2dFirst paragraph.
"Torque Game Builder is the world's most powerful and easy-to-use 2D game engine. Built atop the common Torque core architecture, it offers many of the features of our cutting-edge 3D game engine, but customized for 2D gameplay. With developments paths that allow publishing to Windows, Mac, Xbox 360, Wii, iPhone, and even web platforms, your game will reach the widest possible audience. And with its intuitive and powerful editor, anyone can jump into game creation with little to no prior knowledge ."
Also on the main page.
"Most game functions can be programmed in Torquescript..."
One of the main reasons we were excited and purchased this program was because we wanted to develop for the iPhone. Can you develop an iPhone game just using Torquescript? Sure, if you want a game a 9 year old would enjoy.
I was ok with using Torquescript. But as soon as I started researching how to structure my new iPhone app I ran across many posts about the problems people are having with Torquscript and the iPhone.
The ease of use of Torquescript was the main selling factor in my decision to buy iTGB and also the Adventure Kit, totaling $800.
If it was clear upfront that I would have to have a very solid understanding of C++, I would of gone with my first idea of hiring a programmer.
Maybe I can use TGB down the line for something. We still intend to develop a game. But this experience has left a bitter taste in my mouth, and a giant hole in my wallet.
#4
You can find an MMO here that has about 95% of it's server and client logic done in Torque Script. Add to that, the fact that one of its most complicated systems- an NPC>Player conversation system, is completely done in Torque Script save for the C++ needed to interface with ODBC, and I can put paid to this assertion. The scripting language is robust enough to do many and more things with it beyond games a 9 year old would enjoy.
You've been at it for 7 days, and you're giving up because you find that you need to learn a scripting language? I think you should take a step back, a few deep breaths, and then reanalyze your situation.
While TGB is easy to use, it's not a "push-button, make-game" application, and so you will need to learn how to script in order to get things done at a minimum. I defy you to find an engine that has TGB's capabilities with the added feature of not requiring you to learn programming or at even scripting...
08/15/2009 (10:19 pm)
Quote:Can you develop an iPhone game just using Torquescript? Sure, if you want a game a 9 year old would enjoy.
You can find an MMO here that has about 95% of it's server and client logic done in Torque Script. Add to that, the fact that one of its most complicated systems- an NPC>Player conversation system, is completely done in Torque Script save for the C++ needed to interface with ODBC, and I can put paid to this assertion. The scripting language is robust enough to do many and more things with it beyond games a 9 year old would enjoy.
You've been at it for 7 days, and you're giving up because you find that you need to learn a scripting language? I think you should take a step back, a few deep breaths, and then reanalyze your situation.
While TGB is easy to use, it's not a "push-button, make-game" application, and so you will need to learn how to script in order to get things done at a minimum. I defy you to find an engine that has TGB's capabilities with the added feature of not requiring you to learn programming or at even scripting...
#5
Also the quote "anyone can jump into game creation with little to no prior knowledge" doesn't say that you wont have to learn as you go along.
08/17/2009 (9:25 am)
The game I'm working on is being built completely in torque script so far and I've had no problems adding multiple new features to TGB.Also the quote "anyone can jump into game creation with little to no prior knowledge" doesn't say that you wont have to learn as you go along.
#6
This is true, but it does not say you can jump in without needing to learn afew things. You can not move forward by standing still.
This is true as well.
You will not find a tool/engine to build for the Iphone where you do not need to either learn scripting/coding for some kind. If you feel you do not need nor want to learn these things, than sure, hire a programmer. I'm failing to see the problem here.
08/17/2009 (9:46 am)
Quote:And with its intuitive and powerful editor, anyone can jump into game creation with little to no prior knowledge
This is true, but it does not say you can jump in without needing to learn afew things. You can not move forward by standing still.
Quote:Most game functions can be programmed in Torquescript.
This is true as well.
You will not find a tool/engine to build for the Iphone where you do not need to either learn scripting/coding for some kind. If you feel you do not need nor want to learn these things, than sure, hire a programmer. I'm failing to see the problem here.
#7
They should either make it clear that to make a more complex game for the iPhone you need to know C++, or fix TorqueScript.
Once again, I bought iTBG specifically because Garage Games website made me believe that I could build a game for the iPhone in their easy to use TorqueScript. From all the posts I've read, this is false.
I'm assuming everyone above who has posted knows more than a beginner about game development and programming. I do not.
To someone who has just started on the path to game development and does not know much about game mechanics and programming, Garage Games website is miss-leading. Sure, if you are all ready a programmer or game developer, you probably know what it 'actually' takes to make an iPhone game. You probably all ready knew that iTGB and TorqueScript wouldn't be enough.
But to a beginner none of the above is assumed. I took, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, Garage Games description of it product at face value. That value was not true in the case of TorqueScript and the iPhone. The main reason I purchased it.
08/17/2009 (1:25 pm)
I bought $800 worth of products from GG because their website made me believe I could develop an iPhone game with their easy to use TourqeScript. This is only true for very basic iPhone games. They should either make it clear that to make a more complex game for the iPhone you need to know C++, or fix TorqueScript.
Once again, I bought iTBG specifically because Garage Games website made me believe that I could build a game for the iPhone in their easy to use TorqueScript. From all the posts I've read, this is false.
I'm assuming everyone above who has posted knows more than a beginner about game development and programming. I do not.
To someone who has just started on the path to game development and does not know much about game mechanics and programming, Garage Games website is miss-leading. Sure, if you are all ready a programmer or game developer, you probably know what it 'actually' takes to make an iPhone game. You probably all ready knew that iTGB and TorqueScript wouldn't be enough.
But to a beginner none of the above is assumed. I took, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, Garage Games description of it product at face value. That value was not true in the case of TorqueScript and the iPhone. The main reason I purchased it.
#8
How is it not enough?
What I'm getting from your posts is that you bought these products assuming that you wouldn't have to do any learning. Well, that's a terrible assumption to make for anything, and the fault there lies completely with you.
Torque Script can do most things involving gameplay, but your repeated assertions that it cannot begs the question: What exactly are you trying to do that Torque Script will not allow? Have you tried searching the forums for an answer? Have you tried posting questions about what you need done? Well, that's rhetorical, since your profile shows you haven't asked for help on the forums. Have you gone through the tutorials for scripting to familiarize yourself with it?
08/17/2009 (1:37 pm)
Quote:You probably all ready knew that iTGB and TorqueScript wouldn't be enough.
How is it not enough?
What I'm getting from your posts is that you bought these products assuming that you wouldn't have to do any learning. Well, that's a terrible assumption to make for anything, and the fault there lies completely with you.
Torque Script can do most things involving gameplay, but your repeated assertions that it cannot begs the question: What exactly are you trying to do that Torque Script will not allow? Have you tried searching the forums for an answer? Have you tried posting questions about what you need done? Well, that's rhetorical, since your profile shows you haven't asked for help on the forums. Have you gone through the tutorials for scripting to familiarize yourself with it?
#9
It seems to me that you're becoming frustrated without even trying. Like Ted has mentioned, you haven't even asked question or sought help on the forums. What is so difficult that you are wanting to do that is 'miss-leading' or impossible to do in Torque? If it seems that you can only make very basic games with Torque Script, then you only have a very basic understanding of Torque Script.
No engine anywhere will make your game for you.
08/17/2009 (2:23 pm)
I was and still am a beginner. I've found much value and strength in the simplicity of Torque Script. I've only ever dabbled in TGB but an almost feature complete game can be made in even TGE or TGEa using nothing but TorqueScript -- and the 3d engines are invariably more complex and harder to use, although design and art considerations could make a 2d game more difficult to create. It seems to me that you're becoming frustrated without even trying. Like Ted has mentioned, you haven't even asked question or sought help on the forums. What is so difficult that you are wanting to do that is 'miss-leading' or impossible to do in Torque? If it seems that you can only make very basic games with Torque Script, then you only have a very basic understanding of Torque Script.
No engine anywhere will make your game for you.
#10
@Matthew - Can you provide me with an example of a script you have written that has not performed well (if this is the case)?
08/17/2009 (2:33 pm)
I believe what Matthew is referring to is the performance of TorqueScript for the iPhone engines, not the capability.@Matthew - Can you provide me with an example of a script you have written that has not performed well (if this is the case)?
Employee Michael Perry
ZombieShortbus
Several users have made games using just TorqueScript.