Adding buildings to Torque

#1 www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/tools/worldcraft/index.html

www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/tools/quark/index.html

#2 Thanks for the links!

Can rooms be modeled in 3ds max? How would I build a irregular shaped room? I appreciate your patience with my questions.

#3 You can model buildings/rooms in 3DS (via the max2map plugin), but it really isn't recommended. Worldcraft and QuArK are designed to channel you into creating fairly efficient and error-free levels, while 3DS has no such safeguards.

#4 Both Worldcraft and Quark can be used to build irregularly shaped rooms (though in my experience, the more irregular, the worse Worldcraft does). There is a max2map exporter that can be found in the Torque Tools (www.garagegames.com/mg/projects/torque1/downloads.php) but I have no idea how good it is or if it even still works. There is also a 3rd party max2map exporter that some used to use at www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=1156

#5 What kind of errors could be created with 3ds max? Do you have an example of what you are talking about?

Could interiors of Morrowind quality be created for Torque using the tools you mentioned? With the max2map plugin could I build interiors with 3ds max?

Thanks!

#6

Quote:
What kind of errors could be created with 3ds max? Do you have an example of what you are talking about?

Leaks, and portals that don't line up correctly, mostly. Someone who's a better level designer than I should chime in here.

There's also the issue that arbitrary polygon soup (what 3DS allows and encourages artists to create) compiles into BSP pretty poorly (that is, lots of splits).

Quote:
Could interiors of Morrowind quality be created for Torque using the tools you mentioned?

Yes.

Quote:
With the max2map plugin could I build interiors with 3ds max?

Yes, but again, you should only do so if you're already fairly familar with BSP levels, and probably even then only when you're bumping into the lack of some specific modelling feature in QuArK/Worldcraft.

#7 Mainly MAX allows you to create concave shapes which aren't allowed in bsp's.

#8 There are technical and workflow reasons why CSG (Constructive Solid Geometry) modeling programs are used by companies such as id Software, Raven, Epic, and Monolith...

I don't have time for a CSG dissertation, the math involved, and how it all works... but:

Basically, CSG is a helper for efficient collision, lighting, and visibility calculations. It accomplishes this by restricting geometry creation to brushes (convex polyhedra)...

3DSMAX has nothing adequate for dealing with operations on convex polyhedra (it's boolean operators are definately not sufficient). Your best bet is to use a tool such as Quark for editing interiors.

Considering that anything you could possibly do in 3DSMAX that would actually work when passed thru map2dif (or if the map2dif functionality was in a 3DSMAX plugin)... could be done faster and better with the right tool... Quark, Worldcraft, GTK Radiant..

These tools are specifically designed for RAPID development of brushes... rapid texture mapping... organization... entity layout... etc... and they work.

-J

#9 Josh, that was an "A" class answer! Made me curious about "the math involved, and how it all works"... mmmm, let's focus. So many things, so little time...

#10 Thanks for the replies. I will concentrate my efforts on these level editing tools then and will use 3ds max for the shapes I need.

Could the shapes I build in 3ds max be placed in these other level building tools or would I just I place them with in the game map editor?

#11 It would be great to be able to place .dts shapes inside interiors like you can add .md3 models to Quake III levels...

Alas, currently this is not possible... at least not from the .map level editing software... you can add stuff in the mission editor... it would be very helpful/faster to be able to do this in Quark though...

-J

#12 I would actually want to do it from the map editor. This way I can have a building and use it multiple times on a map but each instance I could put different shapes in it. Am I thinking about this wrong in regards to Torque?

#13 If you were using the same interior object and wanted different details in it in multiple instances on the same map, you would be best placing them in the TGE map editor. You can add custom map items that allow you to place dummies for object location in Quark (requires changing the Quark torque files and the building placement)
We did this for Marble Blast for placing powerups - but then every structure of the same type has the same objects inside it, which sort of defeats the purpose.

So the map editor is your best available option without lots of coding.