Game Development Community

Anyone see the XBLA Indie games announcement?

by Brian · in Torque X 2D · 07/28/2009 (12:55 pm) · 7 replies

There's 2 key things that bother me here though:
Quote:
Reputation
Ever wonder who’s a seasoned Creator and who’s just dropping by? With our new Reputation system, Creators receive points and levels based on their activity on XNA Creators Club Online. Your profile and reputation may reflect items such as MVP or XNA Team badges, reputation score, and more
This one bothers me because it doesn't take into account things we've been doing say here in the garagegames forums or under a different creators tag. I'm cool with it as long as it isn't directly exposed to end users as they will not understand what it is made up of.

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Price Changes
Indie Games will have three price points to choose from, to keep them more in-line with other products available on Xbox LIVE Marketplace. Games can be sold at 80, 240, or 400 Microsoft Points. Only games 50 MB and under can be priced at 80 Microsoft Points.
This bothers me because I really don't see why they pulled out the 800 points games. I feel like they are trying to turn it into a hobby games outlet rather than indy... especially when you take into account that 400 points is roughly $5.00 and they can take between 30% and 70% of that. This is fine, but I feel like this is going to keep the quality of games pretty low by lowering incentive to put more time into one game. I read some articles not too long ago about this that some might be interested in:
Part 1: Indie games should cost more. By Jeff Vogel/Spiderweb Software
Part 2: Indie games should cost more. By Jeff Vogel/Spiderweb Software

Some good things though:
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Tokens
Help media outlets help you - Premium Creators now have the ability to give out tokens for their games! Each game title will receive a maximum of 50 tokens, and you decide how to distribute them. Tokens are a great way for media outlets to easily review and potentially increase awareness of your game, and will be available to all creators beginning July 30th on the My Business page.

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Servicing Your Game
Today, when a Creator has an update to their game, they notify users via the Xbox.com forums…not anymore! As of August 11, 2009, if Creators have an approved update to their game, customers who’ve already purchased the game will automatically be asked if they want to download the most updated version of that game.

and this one has been a biggie for some TX users:
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Submitting XNA Game Studio 3.1 games: Starting today, Creators can submit games updated or created in XNA Game Studio 3.1! Be aware that even after passing Playtest and Peer Review your 3.1 games will not appear on Xbox LIVE Marketplace until the new Xbox LIVE Dashboard launches on August 11, 2009. We will also continue to accept XNA Game Studio 3.0 versions of games until October 22, 2009. After October 22, 2009 if you want to submit or service your Indie Game, you will need to provide XNA Game Studio 3.1 .ccgame files.

Reference:
Welcome to Xbox LIVE Indie Games!
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Torque Owner Sean Monahan
#1
07/28/2009 (3:32 pm)
As far as point two is concerned my feeling is that there is nothing on Indie games that really compares to a "proper" 800 point Arcade release. Reading the MS XNA forums yields a fair amount of threads discussing how much the Indie channel sucks on XBL because of all the fireplace sims and massage games.

I think we XBL Indie devs need to consistently create some games on par with XBLA titles like n+ and Splosion Man before we start worrying about charging 800 points. Kudo Game Lab is probably the most polished title on the Indie channel and it's only 400 points.

Torque Owner Brian
#2
07/28/2009 (3:38 pm)
I hear you Sean. My buddy and I here at work had an entire lunchtime debate about that. The place is overloaded with ripoffs of golden age of vector graphics games, Screen Savers, and Gimmicks. It's sad when the only quality games coming out are puzzle games. I just think it is a bad idea to get rid of 800 points option. If you feel like a game isn't worth it, vote with your money. But at least leave the option. ;)

Brian

P.S. I wonder if all the fireplace/fishtank makers ever thought they could just as easily sell it pre-rendered on a DVD for much more to a wider audience? LOL

Torque Owner Jake Davis
#3
07/28/2009 (6:23 pm)
With the soon-to-have ability to rate marketplace items including Indie games, I think that the good games will finally rise to the top instead of getting mired in all of the apps that are taking all of the "Most Popular" slots. If the apps are truly the best thing on the Indy channel then they will be rated high and deserve their place...don't think that is going to happen to often though.

Torque 3D Owner Paul Mason
#4
07/28/2009 (10:34 pm)
@Brian Funny thing though, myFishTank is one of the most popular community "games". As you said, people vote with their money, and if you want to make money you need to provide what people want. I've seen a number of posts where people complain about the screensavers/fishtanks/gimmicks and somehow they think these "gimmicks are responsible for their game not selling (by cluttering the market place).

Making a FPS half as good as Farcry is a serious achievement, but sadly most people would rather pay more for Farcry than $5 for something half as good. I don't think dropping the 800 point group is a good idea, because price isn't the only motivation - entertainment value is the main one. That's why myFishTank is doing so well, it's the best fish sim (whatever you want to call it) on the XBox 360 - it doesn't need to compete with the likes of Id, EA, Crytek etc (and don't underestimate the appeal of "games" like that).

Torque Owner Brian
#5
07/29/2009 (10:47 am)
@Paul - I think Sean summed it up right, it's more our fault for not providing better content. The problem with it as it is now, is it is going to take more than just one great game on there because the only customers checking anymore are the type that buy Screensavers, Puzzle Games, Ripoff Vector Era Arcade games, and Massagers. My hope is now that Torque X is up to date with XNA, we'll see some great games appear in other genres. I really hope no one spent the $150 for the engine and another $100 for a creators premium account just to have an easier way to make screensavers. It would be really awesome if just because you saw the required TX splash screen you knew you were getting a little more than what we have now.

Brian

Torque Owner Sean Monahan
#6
07/29/2009 (12:54 pm)
@Brian

Put some more thought into your first point and took a look at the official XNA forums. Maybe we should get in touch with the mods over there and see if we can't get a TX forum under the Partners section?

Torque Owner Brian
#7
07/29/2009 (2:09 pm)
@Sean - The only problem would be discoverability. We'd have to answer a lot of question there and post links from here. But it may be the only answer. I just hope they don't expose that to end users on your game's main page. It would be like having an ebay rep based on how much the person posted in their forums... or at least I'd imagine a lot of end users would confuse it for valid data. We had another lunch time discussion about it, and I doubt Microsoft actually intended it as a bad thing. I think they just wanted to provide an incentive for people to answer questions. Not a bad thing, but I feel like you get better answers if people are willing to help just to help rather than for bragging rights, or even worse, because they have to or their game won't sell.

Brian