Game examination.
by Aggrippa · in General Discussion · 07/25/2001 (3:24 pm) · 10 replies
Well because we are all here to make games I figured this would be a good topic and make an interesting read. I figured we could discuss any game that came to mind, it's good points and bad, and find lessons in each example.
I'll take Quake2 as the one that most sticks out in my mind. I felt that the ambience was outstanding. It really made me feel like I was alone and fighting to survive against those darn stroggos. It has been one of the few games that made me jump in my chair. When ambushed by one of those frog monsters for example. It seemed to me that alot of planning (or good luck) went into how the game felt as a whole. The graphics, music, ambient noises, player interface. I enjoyed it very much and have never had the heart to give it away even though I have finished the game many times.
Even though I love the aspect of multiplayer games there is a part of me that would love to sit down and make a single player FPS. I owe that to quake2.
I'll take Quake2 as the one that most sticks out in my mind. I felt that the ambience was outstanding. It really made me feel like I was alone and fighting to survive against those darn stroggos. It has been one of the few games that made me jump in my chair. When ambushed by one of those frog monsters for example. It seemed to me that alot of planning (or good luck) went into how the game felt as a whole. The graphics, music, ambient noises, player interface. I enjoyed it very much and have never had the heart to give it away even though I have finished the game many times.
Even though I love the aspect of multiplayer games there is a part of me that would love to sit down and make a single player FPS. I owe that to quake2.
About the author
#2
Daggerfall - It has it's problems and is too big, but considering it game out in '94 and actually beat Quake by quite a while by having a nice 3D engine :)
It had a really good plot, but the ability to go anywhere and do pretty much anything is its strong point. I'm definitly looking forward to Morrowind. I still play the game to this day, which is impressive considering it is 7 years old!
Jedi Knight - Again this game had a really good plot in a Star Wars vein, plus you got to play a Jedi.
Freespace 2 - This game is so plot driven it is scary, the plot unfolds during the missions, some you fail cause you can't win them, some you can fail but carry on anyway with the results moving into the next mission. The graphics are amazing the battles intense, this, after Tie Fighter is the only space-sim that almost had me falling of the chair trying to dodge incoming fighters!
Aliens Vs Predator - Ok so not much plot here, but plenty of atmosphere, especially in the Marine story. You quickly become aware that you are a grunt and cannon-fodder, one wrong move and an Alien will rip you limb from limb, or you will be fried by a Predator, and with The Company around even your own-side proves to be just as deadly.
Baldurs Gate 2 + The Throne Of Bhaal - What a plot, simply said. Even thought the gameplay gets repetitive and a little boring the plot pulled me through this game kicking and screaming and it was well worth it!
Tribes 2 - I really like the teamplay element. If two even teams are playing what wins is teamplay not the amazing guy who just joined the server cause even he can't survive a spider clamp turret x-fire. Definitly the best FPS shooter multiplay gaming has to offer at the moment. (Yes it beats Counterstrike, with which I am not stunningly impressed....)
Things I'm looking forward to:
Morrowind - Daggerfall but oh so much better :)
Neverwinter Nights - Bioware's plots are stunning :)
Starwars : Galaxies - At last Verant may actually make the first good MMORPG.
On the subject of MMORPGS:
The ones I'm keeping an eye on are:
Asheron's Call
Jumpgate
Why, Asheron's Call has one thing few others do, developer created stories that you can participate in. This is a really strong point, shame about the game devolving into a mindless hack and slash for lower levels and the majority of the time.
Jumpgate, so much done right, just not enough options so players, slightly unbalanced but definitly pushing things in the right direction. The major strong points are - An active economy based on supply and demand, multiple methods of gaining levels, not just killing, the creation of a universe where people ARE accountable for their actions, as a result the universe is far more peaceful despite PKers being able to kill anyone and anytime.
Why not Everquest? I've never liked Everquest, it is completely mindless, the whole point of it is to show off you level X character with his new cool axe of blinding lighting that nukes any area of the map at the utterance of the word fubar. Bah they just got lucky with this. UO doesn't appeal either but it has player ownable property.. nice one :)
TBH I can see games moving in 2 directions, the pure single player experience and the multiplayer experience, with more and more taking on the MMORPG style set up. Take for example World War 2 online, sure it's awful and has a million and one problems, but imagine if someone did that right! You are your 40 mates attacking that bunker with 100 stinking enemy soldiers squeezed in it. I see more going this way where more and more the skill involved in the game is down to the player rather than a 40 stats held remotely on a server, especially as the average gamer's connection finally moves away from the evil that is the modem. As for the single player experience, yes we will always have the mindless shooter, but with Daggerfall, Half-life, Baldur's Gate and so on where the plot was so strong games without strong plots will probably fall by the wayside quite quickly. People seem to be waking up to the fact that even if it looks cool it probably isn't.
Owen
07/25/2001 (5:23 pm)
I'm very picky with my games, I like story-based games, mindless shooters just make me fall asleep, so let me note down a few of interest:Daggerfall - It has it's problems and is too big, but considering it game out in '94 and actually beat Quake by quite a while by having a nice 3D engine :)
It had a really good plot, but the ability to go anywhere and do pretty much anything is its strong point. I'm definitly looking forward to Morrowind. I still play the game to this day, which is impressive considering it is 7 years old!
Jedi Knight - Again this game had a really good plot in a Star Wars vein, plus you got to play a Jedi.
Freespace 2 - This game is so plot driven it is scary, the plot unfolds during the missions, some you fail cause you can't win them, some you can fail but carry on anyway with the results moving into the next mission. The graphics are amazing the battles intense, this, after Tie Fighter is the only space-sim that almost had me falling of the chair trying to dodge incoming fighters!
Aliens Vs Predator - Ok so not much plot here, but plenty of atmosphere, especially in the Marine story. You quickly become aware that you are a grunt and cannon-fodder, one wrong move and an Alien will rip you limb from limb, or you will be fried by a Predator, and with The Company around even your own-side proves to be just as deadly.
Baldurs Gate 2 + The Throne Of Bhaal - What a plot, simply said. Even thought the gameplay gets repetitive and a little boring the plot pulled me through this game kicking and screaming and it was well worth it!
Tribes 2 - I really like the teamplay element. If two even teams are playing what wins is teamplay not the amazing guy who just joined the server cause even he can't survive a spider clamp turret x-fire. Definitly the best FPS shooter multiplay gaming has to offer at the moment. (Yes it beats Counterstrike, with which I am not stunningly impressed....)
Things I'm looking forward to:
Morrowind - Daggerfall but oh so much better :)
Neverwinter Nights - Bioware's plots are stunning :)
Starwars : Galaxies - At last Verant may actually make the first good MMORPG.
On the subject of MMORPGS:
The ones I'm keeping an eye on are:
Asheron's Call
Jumpgate
Why, Asheron's Call has one thing few others do, developer created stories that you can participate in. This is a really strong point, shame about the game devolving into a mindless hack and slash for lower levels and the majority of the time.
Jumpgate, so much done right, just not enough options so players, slightly unbalanced but definitly pushing things in the right direction. The major strong points are - An active economy based on supply and demand, multiple methods of gaining levels, not just killing, the creation of a universe where people ARE accountable for their actions, as a result the universe is far more peaceful despite PKers being able to kill anyone and anytime.
Why not Everquest? I've never liked Everquest, it is completely mindless, the whole point of it is to show off you level X character with his new cool axe of blinding lighting that nukes any area of the map at the utterance of the word fubar. Bah they just got lucky with this. UO doesn't appeal either but it has player ownable property.. nice one :)
TBH I can see games moving in 2 directions, the pure single player experience and the multiplayer experience, with more and more taking on the MMORPG style set up. Take for example World War 2 online, sure it's awful and has a million and one problems, but imagine if someone did that right! You are your 40 mates attacking that bunker with 100 stinking enemy soldiers squeezed in it. I see more going this way where more and more the skill involved in the game is down to the player rather than a 40 stats held remotely on a server, especially as the average gamer's connection finally moves away from the evil that is the modem. As for the single player experience, yes we will always have the mindless shooter, but with Daggerfall, Half-life, Baldur's Gate and so on where the plot was so strong games without strong plots will probably fall by the wayside quite quickly. People seem to be waking up to the fact that even if it looks cool it probably isn't.
Owen
#3
Man! Now I'm going to have to go reinstall quake2 for the 7th time.
07/25/2001 (8:25 pm)
I agree mostly about your attitude towards mindless shooters. The reason I enjoyed quake2 so much is kind of hard to describe. The head Nintendo guy described it best as "creating a miniature garden", when he was describing his game design philosophy (sp?). Every thing about the game made it facinating as a whole. Even though on the serface it doesnt seem to extraordinary. I think one big thing that developers are overlooking is limiting the player. I know this sounds like blasphemy. One example is counter strike, you can die so easily even from an unexperienced player if you're not constantly on your toes. There is nothing special about the weapons really. No fancy Alt fire and the graphics arent that great either. But it's the constraints/limitations and playing in them that make it fun. It is difficult not to die. IMHO CS has achieved the "garden" that the Nintendo guy is talking about. Man! Now I'm going to have to go reinstall quake2 for the 7th time.
#4
(I can already tell this is going to be a long post)
I cite, as examples, Deus Ex and Anachronox. Both of these games are from Ion Storm (a company which I laughed at back when Daikatana was the big thing to look forward to), and both are sub-par as graphics go, compared with games which hit the market at the same time (let alone a year earlier). However, Deus Ex yields some choice on the part of the player as to how the story will pan out, and the story in and of itself is quite good, which is rare for an FPS. Anachronox, on the other hand, is just an amazingly fun game to play and get immersed in (though I hated running back and forth from area to area at the beginning of the game), and (again) the story is quite good, which is also rare for any genre of PC game these days.
Both are what I would call "graphically handicapped," but the plot of Deus Ex (before I got bored with it) and the amazing (yes, amazing; any better and it would be a Ridley Scott production) scenery of Anachronox really made me forget that I was looking at a substandard engine in Deus Ex, and Quake 2's engine in Anachronox. This is to say that graphics are certainly not everything, and possibly a minor factor.
As MMORPG's go, I'm still on the fence. I've recently rediscovered the enjoyment of an old-fashioned dungeon-hack with Anarchy Online, but they eventually get repetitive, as going into the wilderness to kill things does.
Formula for playing virtually any MMORPG: Kill creature, gain XP, level up and/or improve skills. Repeat ad nauseum. Insert items such as "form clan," "sell items," and "buy better weapons" as desired.
However, there are those people who can't stand what is offered to them in current MMORPG's, as well as those who won't like MMOFPS's and any other sorts of games (MMORTS?) which may be the next big thing. Furthermore, of the ones who actually do like the current variety, their numbers will be split and split again as newer games come out, which leads players to decide whether to divide time between an old game in which the player has a very developed avatar (I won't use the word 'character' due to the inherent lack of genuine role-playing on MMORPG's) and a newer game which looks better and seems more interesting.
Since no player can be in two places at once (barring having two computers and no semblance of a life) the player cannot play two MMORPG's at the same time, which will eventually lead to games either closing up shop or making do with fewer players. So, they can scale back the number of servers, or go the way of The Realm (anyone remember that game?). Numbers will go down, as they eventually will for the next crop, et cetera.
As for the people who don't want to play those games, for lack of social aspects or because they feel (like myself) that killing things does not accurately equate to gaining points to improve a skill in Engineering, at least the future might yield less mindless MMORPG's, possibly of the non-massive type, which would make it much, much easier to actually endorse and/or enforce genuine role-playing. Yes, this is a blatant plug for the project I'm working on.
But hey, who'd have thought ten years ago that a game that looks like Anarchy Online would ever come out and be able to support the numbers it does? (note that I didn't say the word 'stable' anywhere in there) So, there's the good chance that things over the next few years will move somewhere else. I just hope the single-player market gets away from mindless FPS's, and that MMORPG's might give me experience points for doing something other than killing things and picking locks.
07/25/2001 (11:50 pm)
I agree with parts of all of this. In my opinion, I see single-player games getting far, far beyond what most shooters are representative of, which is a mindless test of, "Can you kill the hordes of (insert monster/demon here) before they kill you?!" Furthermore, I feel that MMORPG's may eventually hit the wall due to competition within an evolving genre.(I can already tell this is going to be a long post)
I cite, as examples, Deus Ex and Anachronox. Both of these games are from Ion Storm (a company which I laughed at back when Daikatana was the big thing to look forward to), and both are sub-par as graphics go, compared with games which hit the market at the same time (let alone a year earlier). However, Deus Ex yields some choice on the part of the player as to how the story will pan out, and the story in and of itself is quite good, which is rare for an FPS. Anachronox, on the other hand, is just an amazingly fun game to play and get immersed in (though I hated running back and forth from area to area at the beginning of the game), and (again) the story is quite good, which is also rare for any genre of PC game these days.
Both are what I would call "graphically handicapped," but the plot of Deus Ex (before I got bored with it) and the amazing (yes, amazing; any better and it would be a Ridley Scott production) scenery of Anachronox really made me forget that I was looking at a substandard engine in Deus Ex, and Quake 2's engine in Anachronox. This is to say that graphics are certainly not everything, and possibly a minor factor.
As MMORPG's go, I'm still on the fence. I've recently rediscovered the enjoyment of an old-fashioned dungeon-hack with Anarchy Online, but they eventually get repetitive, as going into the wilderness to kill things does.
Formula for playing virtually any MMORPG: Kill creature, gain XP, level up and/or improve skills. Repeat ad nauseum. Insert items such as "form clan," "sell items," and "buy better weapons" as desired.
However, there are those people who can't stand what is offered to them in current MMORPG's, as well as those who won't like MMOFPS's and any other sorts of games (MMORTS?) which may be the next big thing. Furthermore, of the ones who actually do like the current variety, their numbers will be split and split again as newer games come out, which leads players to decide whether to divide time between an old game in which the player has a very developed avatar (I won't use the word 'character' due to the inherent lack of genuine role-playing on MMORPG's) and a newer game which looks better and seems more interesting.
Since no player can be in two places at once (barring having two computers and no semblance of a life) the player cannot play two MMORPG's at the same time, which will eventually lead to games either closing up shop or making do with fewer players. So, they can scale back the number of servers, or go the way of The Realm (anyone remember that game?). Numbers will go down, as they eventually will for the next crop, et cetera.
As for the people who don't want to play those games, for lack of social aspects or because they feel (like myself) that killing things does not accurately equate to gaining points to improve a skill in Engineering, at least the future might yield less mindless MMORPG's, possibly of the non-massive type, which would make it much, much easier to actually endorse and/or enforce genuine role-playing. Yes, this is a blatant plug for the project I'm working on.
But hey, who'd have thought ten years ago that a game that looks like Anarchy Online would ever come out and be able to support the numbers it does? (note that I didn't say the word 'stable' anywhere in there) So, there's the good chance that things over the next few years will move somewhere else. I just hope the single-player market gets away from mindless FPS's, and that MMORPG's might give me experience points for doing something other than killing things and picking locks.
#5
Jumpgates 3 factions make no sense, the idea that they grew up individually doesn't really work, where are the Solrain communists (The Solrain are the capitialist faction), the trained military to protect the Sol convoys? That's immediately 3 factions, Communists, Military, Merchants. The reason I'm citing this is that any Sol who leaves Station X after initially logging in is the same as ANY other new Sol in the game, the only thing that makes a difference is that players familiarity with the game and natural apptitude for newtonian-physic based space simulators.
Jumpgate has only really one aim in life to get a bigger, better, faster, tougher ship, to do this you must gain experience, here is in a way where Jumpgate shines, you can gain XP from:
Completing missions (6 types)
Flipping Beacons
Killing The Conflux
Unfortunately Jumpgate also shoots itself in the foot, the transport missions pay the best and give the best XP, simply because until you're around level 20 you can't get a very good cargo ship, meaning cargo missions are useless, and mining lasers are pathetic up to level 10 ish to mining isn't an option.
Also there is a significant lack of player interaction with the universe, certainly they effect the supply and demand based economy, however impacts made by individuals make no significant difference. What would have probably been a good idea is the creation of user owned capital ships and stations. This would help fill the empty space (quite literally) up with interesting features, so as more players get online you really can start to feel it get crowded.
More support for the fringe elements, you are accoutable for your actions in Jumpgate, unprovoked attacks mean your reputation drops, get into a negative and the TRI put a bounty on you. However people still play "pirates". In reality they are highwaymen with a "pay or die" philosphy. Why not support them, allow cargo to be jettisoned both manually and upon a ships destruction. (A modifer could be placed so that a ship that is literally blown to pieces may not jettison its cargo due to the fact it was destroyed), plus combined with the Capital Ship idea Pirates now have a mobile base.
Additionally some custom weapon builder could be included which allowed the marketing and production of custom weapons, by combining the different components for a particular weapon together in different amounts, or with different qualities, allowing user build corporations, who mine, refine, design and produce new products for the universe, which whilst not upping your overall rank the idea of become a "household" name in a MM universe appeals.
Also a contract system, user made missions effectively, say Corporation X needs 500 units of metal ore transported to their refiney they could post a contract for it with a payment per unit, the game can then decide if XP is awardable and how much.
As I said in the post above Jumpgate is a step in the right direction and a leap from the monotony that is EQ, AC, UO however it doesn't go far enough, if you create a huge universe there better be a large number of things you can do, and multiple goals to work towards.
Owen
07/26/2001 (3:33 am)
Agreed MMORPG at the moment are very stagnant, perhaps it shows a certain shallowness of the market that such games are successful, on the otherhand a game of 300,000 subscribers is not taking a huge portion of the market when you consider the subscribers could come from anywhere in the globe. People always cite the social aspects of a MMORPG as a major strong point, I would say that that is not entirely true, if you're looking to chat to other players load up IRC. But then again there is that cooperative attack the incredibly tough beast, which must be fun a couple of times. MMORPG are just too restrictive at the moment, there simply isn't enough to do, if you're paying £10,$10,10 a month for your MM fix surely you shouldn't have to do the same thing over and over and over, if you decide to do the same thing over and over that's your choice but a more productive system would be to allow players to have many choices, and these choices to have immediate benefits. For example I was looking at Jumpgate and came up with some additional ideas:Jumpgates 3 factions make no sense, the idea that they grew up individually doesn't really work, where are the Solrain communists (The Solrain are the capitialist faction), the trained military to protect the Sol convoys? That's immediately 3 factions, Communists, Military, Merchants. The reason I'm citing this is that any Sol who leaves Station X after initially logging in is the same as ANY other new Sol in the game, the only thing that makes a difference is that players familiarity with the game and natural apptitude for newtonian-physic based space simulators.
Jumpgate has only really one aim in life to get a bigger, better, faster, tougher ship, to do this you must gain experience, here is in a way where Jumpgate shines, you can gain XP from:
Completing missions (6 types)
Flipping Beacons
Killing The Conflux
Unfortunately Jumpgate also shoots itself in the foot, the transport missions pay the best and give the best XP, simply because until you're around level 20 you can't get a very good cargo ship, meaning cargo missions are useless, and mining lasers are pathetic up to level 10 ish to mining isn't an option.
Also there is a significant lack of player interaction with the universe, certainly they effect the supply and demand based economy, however impacts made by individuals make no significant difference. What would have probably been a good idea is the creation of user owned capital ships and stations. This would help fill the empty space (quite literally) up with interesting features, so as more players get online you really can start to feel it get crowded.
More support for the fringe elements, you are accoutable for your actions in Jumpgate, unprovoked attacks mean your reputation drops, get into a negative and the TRI put a bounty on you. However people still play "pirates". In reality they are highwaymen with a "pay or die" philosphy. Why not support them, allow cargo to be jettisoned both manually and upon a ships destruction. (A modifer could be placed so that a ship that is literally blown to pieces may not jettison its cargo due to the fact it was destroyed), plus combined with the Capital Ship idea Pirates now have a mobile base.
Additionally some custom weapon builder could be included which allowed the marketing and production of custom weapons, by combining the different components for a particular weapon together in different amounts, or with different qualities, allowing user build corporations, who mine, refine, design and produce new products for the universe, which whilst not upping your overall rank the idea of become a "household" name in a MM universe appeals.
Also a contract system, user made missions effectively, say Corporation X needs 500 units of metal ore transported to their refiney they could post a contract for it with a payment per unit, the game can then decide if XP is awardable and how much.
As I said in the post above Jumpgate is a step in the right direction and a leap from the monotony that is EQ, AC, UO however it doesn't go far enough, if you create a huge universe there better be a large number of things you can do, and multiple goals to work towards.
Owen
#6
Although I havent got it yet (comes out in UK tommorow) Max Payne does look to be the next biggie for me.
BTW - I am realy looking forward to Morrowind too - although Daggerfall bored me to death after a while I have always been intrigued by the stuff Bethesda produces - even if it has at times been buggy (Anyone remember Skynet?)- sometimes I preffer stuff thats trying but is flawed than the 'all sown up' Q2 style stuff.
07/26/2001 (10:08 am)
I know allot of people dont agree - but I thought Hitman was one of the most interesting games Ive played in a long time - it was challenging and interesting to play and tried to do things that hadnt been done before.Although I havent got it yet (comes out in UK tommorow) Max Payne does look to be the next biggie for me.
BTW - I am realy looking forward to Morrowind too - although Daggerfall bored me to death after a while I have always been intrigued by the stuff Bethesda produces - even if it has at times been buggy (Anyone remember Skynet?)- sometimes I preffer stuff thats trying but is flawed than the 'all sown up' Q2 style stuff.
#7
Owen
07/26/2001 (12:59 pm)
You can forgive Skynet if you remember it was the first fully 3d engine game produced commerically....Owen
#9
The other game I really enjoyed was TRIBES 1. I think I liked it because I felt like a part of it. I also liked the idea that I could take ten minutes and play a great match and then go on with my day. I could play it as much or as little as I wanted. I also had a T1 at Dynamix, so that might have helped.. :)
07/26/2001 (1:43 pm)
For me, the game I have enjoyed the most would have to be War Craft. Mostly, it was the first game that I have played of that particular Genre, and I couldn't stop playing it. I was so interested in the what came next, and in solving the levels. Some of them were easy, but some took a lot of working. The other game I really enjoyed was TRIBES 1. I think I liked it because I felt like a part of it. I also liked the idea that I could take ten minutes and play a great match and then go on with my day. I could play it as much or as little as I wanted. I also had a T1 at Dynamix, so that might have helped.. :)
#10
07/27/2001 (3:01 am)
Sorry - didnt make myself clear - I loved Skynet and didnt realy mind the bugs - it was one of the most immersive FPS games I have plyed - and still beats many that come out today (anyone ever try climbing up to the top of a demoloshed building and looking down - it was the first time i ever got a sence of real scale in a game) 
Andrew \"wacko\" Spiering
My other game that comes to mind is actually tribes 2. This game is one that i cannot always say great things about it. It having a patch every other for the first 3 days it was out, and some patches not installing right. I mean whats up with the fact you have to have a reverse patch to get the new patch to work, sounds kinda lame to me. But over all this game played out very well and is very fun to play. has good sound but seems to lack in the music area.