Sales Reports?
by Kirby Webber · in General Discussion · 03/13/2003 (6:10 am) · 28 replies
This may be going a bit out on a limb, but what the heck.
It *feels* lately like the gaming community at large is taking more and more notice of Garage Games and its developers. A VERY good thing to say the least.
That said, I began to wonder how this increase in interest might be affecting the sales of the available titles here at GG.
I think there are a fair number of *serious* minded developers here, that is those that want to get published so badly that we can taste it. I'm sure that of those, the lions share would give their eyeteeth to have a look at some sales figures on at least a semi-annual basis.
The reason that I ask is this. There are some among the community, who do have avenues into the box market, albeit with a number of provisions, but those avenues exist.
Ones "knee-jerk" reaction might indicate that you'd have to be a fool to pass that up, after all, a smaller piece of a much larger pie is better than a larger piece of a smaller pie right? Maybe not.
Consider that a game in the box market has shelf prominence for a few months, unless it's a "blockbuster" title, and then it gradually disappears from the shelves. That means that while many publishers in the box channels can grant you wide-spread exposure (geographically speaking of course) and potentially larger profits, they can only do so for a limited period of time, after which it becomes less and less profitable to maintain market penetration. Top this off with the idea that as a first time indy developer you'll do well to see 30% of those profits, and things get a widdle scwewy with the math!
Contrast this with the GG model, wherein you do not pay for packaging, keep the lions share of your profits, and have much of the legwork regarding support, marketing, distribution, etc. done for you without incurring additional costs. Add to that the current trend of increasing interest in GG, continuing support for titles *long* after they would have been taken off the shelves, and you have a superior business model with the potential to give the box channels a SERIOUS run for its money. (IMHO)
All of this is, of course, purely conjecture and opinion at this stage, which brings me back to the point of this thread. How about providing some hard numbers so that we can see how well the current business model is working? I for one would prefer to make a little less per month over a span of years, than to make a little more over a span of months.
Lets face it... we all dream of quitting our day jobs, and running a successful development company right? Well, most of us do ~I think~. This may or may not be possible depending on our individual success, but it would sure be easier to plan if we had strong data to use in the process. I may not be able to quit my job anytime soon, but if and when I do get published, I would like to be able to make an intelligent and informed decision regarding how, where, and with whom to do so. I suspect that GG will be a MAJOR consideration in that equation.
I realize that it may be a bit premature to actually release a sales report, but is it to early to discuss there possibility?
So... how about guys?
It *feels* lately like the gaming community at large is taking more and more notice of Garage Games and its developers. A VERY good thing to say the least.
That said, I began to wonder how this increase in interest might be affecting the sales of the available titles here at GG.
I think there are a fair number of *serious* minded developers here, that is those that want to get published so badly that we can taste it. I'm sure that of those, the lions share would give their eyeteeth to have a look at some sales figures on at least a semi-annual basis.
The reason that I ask is this. There are some among the community, who do have avenues into the box market, albeit with a number of provisions, but those avenues exist.
Ones "knee-jerk" reaction might indicate that you'd have to be a fool to pass that up, after all, a smaller piece of a much larger pie is better than a larger piece of a smaller pie right? Maybe not.
Consider that a game in the box market has shelf prominence for a few months, unless it's a "blockbuster" title, and then it gradually disappears from the shelves. That means that while many publishers in the box channels can grant you wide-spread exposure (geographically speaking of course) and potentially larger profits, they can only do so for a limited period of time, after which it becomes less and less profitable to maintain market penetration. Top this off with the idea that as a first time indy developer you'll do well to see 30% of those profits, and things get a widdle scwewy with the math!
Contrast this with the GG model, wherein you do not pay for packaging, keep the lions share of your profits, and have much of the legwork regarding support, marketing, distribution, etc. done for you without incurring additional costs. Add to that the current trend of increasing interest in GG, continuing support for titles *long* after they would have been taken off the shelves, and you have a superior business model with the potential to give the box channels a SERIOUS run for its money. (IMHO)
All of this is, of course, purely conjecture and opinion at this stage, which brings me back to the point of this thread. How about providing some hard numbers so that we can see how well the current business model is working? I for one would prefer to make a little less per month over a span of years, than to make a little more over a span of months.
Lets face it... we all dream of quitting our day jobs, and running a successful development company right? Well, most of us do ~I think~. This may or may not be possible depending on our individual success, but it would sure be easier to plan if we had strong data to use in the process. I may not be able to quit my job anytime soon, but if and when I do get published, I would like to be able to make an intelligent and informed decision regarding how, where, and with whom to do so. I suspect that GG will be a MAJOR consideration in that equation.
I realize that it may be a bit premature to actually release a sales report, but is it to early to discuss there possibility?
So... how about guys?
#22
04/08/2003 (10:38 am)
Yes, thanks for the clarification Michael.
#23
www.garagegames.com/pg/publishing.php
If/when a GG published title goes to box we have the one time $10k commercial license fee with not royalties (more specific details on how box deals work are covered under NDA conversations with our developers).
04/08/2003 (11:58 am)
Micheal - For any of the sales that are online our exclusive publishing contracts are at 65% on Net Revenue (Net means after Visa charges and other agreed to fees are paid).www.garagegames.com/pg/publishing.php
Quote:We are fair. Developers that create great games are the reason we exist, so we pay the best royalty rates, starting at 65%. Increase your royalties by contributing to the community or Torque technology efforts. You continue to own your Intellectual Property.
If/when a GG published title goes to box we have the one time $10k commercial license fee with not royalties (more specific details on how box deals work are covered under NDA conversations with our developers).
#24
04/08/2003 (12:03 pm)
10k for a box deal? I thought the company would have to have a revenue of $500,000 or more in order to pay for that license, regardles of box 
#25
Jeff Tunnell GG
04/08/2003 (12:15 pm)
From the EULA:Quote:
(b) Licensee may not use the Software in whole or in part to create products for competing game publishing companies, commercial websites, or any other commercial or non-commercial entity, whether public or private if the sum of the annual revenue of the Licensee and publishing entity exceeds $500,000, without obtaining a COMMERCIAL LICENSE from the Licensor.
Jeff Tunnell GG
#26
It says you can't make more than $500,000. So, theoretically, could you intentionally make a clone of an existing game which was published by a major publisher/developer, and release it as freeware without getting into any legal trouble?
Say you wanted to clone UT2K3, but make a few changes that you absolutely hated in the store-bought UT2K3, but keep everything else (besides maps/textures/models) exactly the same and do it on torque (say you don't like all the interiors and wanted to bring the game outside). So, you use the same exact weapons, gameplay, features, even most of the same terminology, and anything else that decides how you play, but change the storyline, maps, textures, and a few minor details.
Would that get you into legal trouble if you released it as freeware? Or, would the evil lawyers come out to get you and send you a little CaD letter in the mail?
Also, when releasing as freeware, do donations count as "revenue?" Like if you had a paypal donate at the bottom of your web page or something - just for those that feel they should give something in return.
04/08/2003 (12:38 pm)
Since you brought up the EULA, this may be a stupid question, but this was the very origional and somewhat naiive base of our game at the start. However, the premise has changed much since then.It says you can't make more than $500,000. So, theoretically, could you intentionally make a clone of an existing game which was published by a major publisher/developer, and release it as freeware without getting into any legal trouble?
Say you wanted to clone UT2K3, but make a few changes that you absolutely hated in the store-bought UT2K3, but keep everything else (besides maps/textures/models) exactly the same and do it on torque (say you don't like all the interiors and wanted to bring the game outside). So, you use the same exact weapons, gameplay, features, even most of the same terminology, and anything else that decides how you play, but change the storyline, maps, textures, and a few minor details.
Would that get you into legal trouble if you released it as freeware? Or, would the evil lawyers come out to get you and send you a little CaD letter in the mail?
Also, when releasing as freeware, do donations count as "revenue?" Like if you had a paypal donate at the bottom of your web page or something - just for those that feel they should give something in return.
#27
Jeff Tunnell GG
04/08/2003 (2:17 pm)
If you copy somebody else's IP, you are asking for trouble, free or not.Jeff Tunnell GG
#28
04/08/2003 (4:13 pm)
Ok, so then it's a good thing we changed course :) 
Torque 3D Owner Michael Cozzolino
Big Monk Games