DarkBASIC Professional. . .
by Ali Scissons · in General Discussion · 03/08/2003 (3:05 pm) · 11 replies
Yeah, some of you may of heard of it. I'm planning to develop some games with this. . . don't laugh.
Anywho, it seems a very good peice of software. Although not many of the promised features are in, a new patch will come that completely rewrites the engine, thus resulting in MUCH faster results. And I also like the add-in DLL compatibility, for example, you can add in a OGG sound format DLL so you can avoid MP3 costs.
What do you all think of this engine?
P.S. - Look for "Star Wraith 3". Its a shareware game built on a older DarkBASIC revesion. Its pretty good.
Anywho, it seems a very good peice of software. Although not many of the promised features are in, a new patch will come that completely rewrites the engine, thus resulting in MUCH faster results. And I also like the add-in DLL compatibility, for example, you can add in a OGG sound format DLL so you can avoid MP3 costs.
What do you all think of this engine?
P.S. - Look for "Star Wraith 3". Its a shareware game built on a older DarkBASIC revesion. Its pretty good.
#2
I met the guys behind DarkBasic at E3 in 2000 and they were very intelligent and well spoken, there seems to be lots of support and help to anyone that uses DarkBasic.
That said, it has its limitations, my motto is I want to know what something CAN'T do, and then you can do anything else. With DarkBasic and other languages and similar environments you will hit some kind of wall eventually that can only be overcome by going to a more advanced language/tool which means more experience needed, DarkBasic is pretty well balanced so that when you do start to hit those walls you should have enough background to actually make progress foward.
03/11/2003 (8:44 am)
For beginners to programming DarkBasic is one of the better choices. Torque is probabbly one of the worst.I met the guys behind DarkBasic at E3 in 2000 and they were very intelligent and well spoken, there seems to be lots of support and help to anyone that uses DarkBasic.
That said, it has its limitations, my motto is I want to know what something CAN'T do, and then you can do anything else. With DarkBasic and other languages and similar environments you will hit some kind of wall eventually that can only be overcome by going to a more advanced language/tool which means more experience needed, DarkBasic is pretty well balanced so that when you do start to hit those walls you should have enough background to actually make progress foward.
#3
I would definitely agree with this.
03/11/2003 (8:56 am)
Quote:Personally i'd say ANY engine / language etc. that enables you to finish the game you want to make is a good one.
I would definitely agree with this.
#4
As far as I know, DB is based on C++ and DirectX, but takes alot of common code and converts it into easier syntax for lesser inclined programmers, which is fine, but then there's the issue of the limitations which DB presents, namely the fact that most features will need to be added in house by the DB staff (and I've seen plenty of good ideas that still have yet to make it into the engine). But the good thing is, if you can do some C coding, you have a chance at attempting your own enhancements.
Above all, Torque does have plenty more features to take advantage of, but if you are looking for a non-programmer friendly tool which helps you understand some of the fundimentals (and frustration ;) that real programming is, I have yet to see a better learning tool!
Enjoy and good luck!
- Christopher Dapo ~ Ronixus
BTW - If you would like, I still have a few simple scripts I've done for DB I could send you.
03/11/2003 (11:39 am)
I experimented with DB using the demo and it does have some interesting features if you really dig into it. Unless they changed it, there was always a decent command list/help guide, including a tutorial (though kind of bland).As far as I know, DB is based on C++ and DirectX, but takes alot of common code and converts it into easier syntax for lesser inclined programmers, which is fine, but then there's the issue of the limitations which DB presents, namely the fact that most features will need to be added in house by the DB staff (and I've seen plenty of good ideas that still have yet to make it into the engine). But the good thing is, if you can do some C coding, you have a chance at attempting your own enhancements.
Above all, Torque does have plenty more features to take advantage of, but if you are looking for a non-programmer friendly tool which helps you understand some of the fundimentals (and frustration ;) that real programming is, I have yet to see a better learning tool!
Enjoy and good luck!
- Christopher Dapo ~ Ronixus
BTW - If you would like, I still have a few simple scripts I've done for DB I could send you.
#5
Dark Basic is quite good as its probably one of the easiest languages to learn how to write a 3D game.
On the downside, this game programming language lacks data structures or classes - which means you would have to write your whole game in primitive data types. Not only that, Basic Syntax isn't quite friendly (ask yourself about those nested if then else). Also the engine isn't that stable, and its quite usual to see your game hang for no reason at all from time to time.
Anyway, heard that Dark Basic Professional was quite better in performance and offers some basic data structures, though I won't comment on this issue as I've heard from very good to very bad comments (many people say that Dark Basic was better than Dark Basic Professional)
On my own humble opinion, Dark Basic and Dark Basic Professional is an easy language that a newbie could grab and create impressive demos and games, though it lacks the power and flexibility for more experienced programmers to create a professional like game.
03/11/2003 (8:08 pm)
I've used Dark Basic for about a year or so before quiting it.Dark Basic is quite good as its probably one of the easiest languages to learn how to write a 3D game.
On the downside, this game programming language lacks data structures or classes - which means you would have to write your whole game in primitive data types. Not only that, Basic Syntax isn't quite friendly (ask yourself about those nested if then else). Also the engine isn't that stable, and its quite usual to see your game hang for no reason at all from time to time.
Anyway, heard that Dark Basic Professional was quite better in performance and offers some basic data structures, though I won't comment on this issue as I've heard from very good to very bad comments (many people say that Dark Basic was better than Dark Basic Professional)
On my own humble opinion, Dark Basic and Dark Basic Professional is an easy language that a newbie could grab and create impressive demos and games, though it lacks the power and flexibility for more experienced programmers to create a professional like game.
#6
Anyway, DarkBASIC is a must for prototyping, but stay well clear if you think you're gonna build a full top game with it. Stick to Torque - the engine of champions ;)
09/28/2003 (2:28 pm)
I once spent a long time building a car physics engine in DarkBASIC. If only I'd known Torque came with one built in :(Anyway, DarkBASIC is a must for prototyping, but stay well clear if you think you're gonna build a full top game with it. Stick to Torque - the engine of champions ;)
#7
12/09/2003 (6:52 pm)
100$ for Blitz!!! thats the same price as torqe.
#8
I don't know as much about Dark Basic, having last poked around with it at least a half year or so ago, but I'd guess it probably has some similar troubles.
Torque is almost certainly the way you want to go if you're already comfortable with 3d engines(and if not, you can always follow OpenGL/DX tutorials to gain some experience by making a simple one, and then jump into Torque).
I'm starting myself off with 2d, and I think I'm finally settling, after a lot of testing and searching for a good cheap solution, on Python with Pygame. It's not a superfast blitter, being primarily software-based, but it compares favorably to BlitzPlus in ease-of-use for games of moderate or greater complexity, plus it's cross-platform and developer-supportable.
12/10/2003 (7:44 pm)
Blitz is an excellent choice but for one thing - a bad debugger. My small experience with it using the trial run is that it can often leave you out in the cold as to where exactly your program failed, especially in fails-to-start cases. That combined with the limited data structuring tools institutes some tough restrictions on your coding speed and ease-of-implementation for difficult problems.I don't know as much about Dark Basic, having last poked around with it at least a half year or so ago, but I'd guess it probably has some similar troubles.
Torque is almost certainly the way you want to go if you're already comfortable with 3d engines(and if not, you can always follow OpenGL/DX tutorials to gain some experience by making a simple one, and then jump into Torque).
I'm starting myself off with 2d, and I think I'm finally settling, after a lot of testing and searching for a good cheap solution, on Python with Pygame. It's not a superfast blitter, being primarily software-based, but it compares favorably to BlitzPlus in ease-of-use for games of moderate or greater complexity, plus it's cross-platform and developer-supportable.
#9
12/10/2003 (7:57 pm)
The real problem with Dark Basic Professioanl is that there are no accurate external timing mechanisms. This means your game will run too slow on some machines, just right on others and too fast on the rest. 
#10
If you want to provide support for Dark Basic, use their bandwidth. We may be progressive, but we're not that progressive. Nothing like biting the hand that feeds you Adrian.
-Jeff Tunnell GG
Edit: Spelling.
12/11/2003 (5:56 am)
Hey Adrian!If you want to provide support for Dark Basic, use their bandwidth. We may be progressive, but we're not that progressive. Nothing like biting the hand that feeds you Adrian.
-Jeff Tunnell GG
Edit: Spelling.
#11
Decided to delete all my posts in this thread.
12/11/2003 (7:17 am)
Ok Jeff, didn't mean to cause offence. I'll hold back on posting about these kinds of things in future.Decided to delete all my posts in this thread.
Torque 3D Owner Gareth Davies
Obviously using DLL's isn't anything new for most programs ;) But it's nice to see that they're putting some more serious extendability into these products.
Star Wraith is really fairly impressive, and i've seen some other really quite good apps from Dark Basic and they have a good helpful forum too.
Their 'anti-piracy' measures sound really intrusive though (but you can spend even more money to buy a dongle to get round them), and the 'demo' is self defeating (try DB with the demo... yeah all the help / tutorials are in the full version only). Thus making their recent competitions little more than a sales strategy. IMHO that sets a few alarm bells going about commitment to the customer.
Personally i'd say ANY engine / language etc. that enables you to finish the game you want to make is a good one. Contrary to popular belief Torque isn't for everyone, but we've had more than a fair share of DB refugee's.