When game producers go too far...
by Gary Simpson · in General Discussion · 03/06/2003 (6:43 am) · 48 replies
Let me give you a little background first:
End of 2002 summer I had been working on an indie game using the Torque engine. The project manager/producer was and has been explicit that he will not be using NDAs or work agreements since things are "going too smoothly for paperwork". It's one of the those, we-all-work-now-and-get-equal-shares-later projects. You're not going to make money but you'll get experience.
Fastforward to now, I've recently been employed by an ACTUAL game company. They have been nice enough to me to allow me to work on other games-in-development as long as there are the appropriate NDAs signed. So I go back and talk to the previously-mentioned project manager and ask for legal agreements to be made so that everyone is protected and life can go on.
But he can't. It appears that the indie game company doesn't have any standing since it's not even legalized as such. It's just a made-up company to look professional. So after receiving some flak from the project manager, I tell him that I have to withdraw from my appointed position in the fictious company. I'm not going to jeopardize my new job over it. In the severance email, I also tell him that I would appreciate him removing all image/content development I had done up to that point. I'm not a mean guy, but I do know copyright laws.
Yeah, he doesn't like that. In fact, he refuses and sends me a scathing email which is just a blur of curses and broken english. He goes on to say that, "it's company property" and that all of it is "copyrighted". Funny, this coming from a guy that won't even sign a work agreement. I probably would have written it off and just forgotten about it till something was brought to my attention - the website*. It appears that my developments are all over it (hell, even the company logo).
So I send another request for removal of content. Nothing. I post-up in the site's forums. Deleted. So what do I do? I'm telling people...
This is a word of advice to other indie developers. Make the distinction early on if the game you are making is for fun or for profit. If it is for profit, be professional and have work agreements. This protects EVERYONE.
gs
End of 2002 summer I had been working on an indie game using the Torque engine. The project manager/producer was and has been explicit that he will not be using NDAs or work agreements since things are "going too smoothly for paperwork". It's one of the those, we-all-work-now-and-get-equal-shares-later projects. You're not going to make money but you'll get experience.
Fastforward to now, I've recently been employed by an ACTUAL game company. They have been nice enough to me to allow me to work on other games-in-development as long as there are the appropriate NDAs signed. So I go back and talk to the previously-mentioned project manager and ask for legal agreements to be made so that everyone is protected and life can go on.
But he can't. It appears that the indie game company doesn't have any standing since it's not even legalized as such. It's just a made-up company to look professional. So after receiving some flak from the project manager, I tell him that I have to withdraw from my appointed position in the fictious company. I'm not going to jeopardize my new job over it. In the severance email, I also tell him that I would appreciate him removing all image/content development I had done up to that point. I'm not a mean guy, but I do know copyright laws.
Yeah, he doesn't like that. In fact, he refuses and sends me a scathing email which is just a blur of curses and broken english. He goes on to say that, "it's company property" and that all of it is "copyrighted". Funny, this coming from a guy that won't even sign a work agreement. I probably would have written it off and just forgotten about it till something was brought to my attention - the website*. It appears that my developments are all over it (hell, even the company logo).
So I send another request for removal of content. Nothing. I post-up in the site's forums. Deleted. So what do I do? I'm telling people...
This is a word of advice to other indie developers. Make the distinction early on if the game you are making is for fun or for profit. If it is for profit, be professional and have work agreements. This protects EVERYONE.
gs
About the author
#42
03/06/2003 (9:59 pm)
Thanks Charles. Lots of great insight. :)
#43
03/07/2003 (1:38 am)
NOW we're going somewhere with this thread!
#44
03/07/2003 (3:01 am)
Minor correction it's a "Dun & Bradstreet" number.
#45
03/07/2003 (4:32 am)
Thanks for noticing I didn't. I posted all that at like 1AM EST yesterday, juet before I went to sleep...hehe. :P
#46
03/07/2003 (8:42 am)
I had no idea that this WAS a flame war. Generally if a topic got really long without me knowing, I read the first few posts, and make a remark that may or may not be off topic... (C: Never-the-less, this IS important stuff. I had the attitude when I started this of: "We are all freinds, let's not let a contract get in the way". There are many flaws with this, but the one that stood out the most with me is that people may opt to leave this project prematurely, and I need to have a way of handling their cases. And now with me actually hiring on people I didn't know all through college, this is even more of an important thing to get across. I'm still not sure if this will make money or not, but I wanna make sure that if it does happen, everyone is covered as much as they deserve to be, and that they understand what they deserve from the very start. Contrary to my initial belief that this "legal mumbo jumbo" would get in the way and slow progress, it will actually make things run much smoother if everyone is on the same page. Thanks for all your tips guys...And now to read the flame war...
#47
03/07/2003 (9:02 am)
heh..woa..that WAS ugly. Yeah, this could serve as a valuable lesson to us all of what could happen if the guidelines aren't agreed to from the very start. And this seemed pretty tame to what could have happened (court/lawyers/fines/etc). I've certainly learned my lesson, although, I learned this lesson from an article that was previously posted here (sorry, I don't remember the URL), but it was from a consultant who basically said that many starting companies start with the "Let's be freinds" approach and it rarely goes that way. A lot of things said in that article sounded so familiar, so I changed my ways. And isn't what this community is all about anyway? Learning from our collective mistakes? That being said..I'm still looking for an artist.... (C:
#48
Having a company for 3 years and still not in debt, yay! :o)
03/07/2003 (9:10 am)
Is there a general GG FAQ that can link to this thread? Just out of curiosity, it would be cool to have this info accessible in an easy way - most people new to business might be interested! Having a company for 3 years and still not in debt, yay! :o)
Torque Owner Charles McKee