Real-Time Strategy Games

#1 Ah I just wanted to state that Dune 2 is older then C&C.

#2 Oh yeah, you're right.

The game where structures magically pop up from the ground and that you couldn't build a refinery one square off the cement slabs or else it would degenerate to half its total HP. How could I forget?

Thanks for reminding me!

#3 If you think about it, wouldn't something like sim city or theme park be a real time strategy

#4 Strategy and simulation, almost the same but not quite.

RTS is named for the strategy in warfare which is why they are mostly war games. The change from turn-based to realtime is good, but has been rather slow considering the lack of many games.

I'm planning to do a RTS/FPS crossbreed some day. I've already designed a prototype boardgame about it, like D&D dice games, but it needs alot of work to be complete. You control your forces in order to claim ground on new planets, waging huge battles, researching new science and raw materials, developing massive weapons, and keep it all focused on the individual soldiers to operate everything in your command. That's Universal Genocide for you :)

Anyways, have fun :)

#5 Although RTS/FPS crossbreeds are very promising, they often throw too much on the player. Uprising. I believe, did this. You had your Avatar (the Wraith Tank) and a lot of viable base sites to develop, but you had to drive to each of them to give them construction orders.

Sometimes, players would find themselves going back to rebuild a base they just finished only to see another base being blown to bits.

Also, the AI would often hunt the player in large packs just as the player was rushing to build or manage one of his bases. Between blowing one enemy and another, the player had to access some menus and queue some stuff.

Nevertheless, it really pulls the player into the thrill of the action.

Uprising and BattleZone are two examples of RTS/FPS crossbreeds. Would Sacrifice qualify as one too?

#6 The basic RTS formula



- Have two sides wage war on their bid for global domination.
Side B (AKA "Bad Guys") wants to conquer the world so they can destroy it;
Side A (AKA "Good Guys") wants to rule the world in the name of "justice" and "peace".

- This war is waged on battlefields across the world, yet battles occur in places where there aren't civilians unless one of the mission's objectives is to either protect or destroy them. Civilian property, if present, is always expendable and/or for comic relief.

- There is only one way to make cash; harvesting a resource. Often involves something mineral in nature but can be exotic and alien. Some examples to get your creative juice flowing: alien mineral, ore, gold, gems, oil, uranium, copper, gas, etc..

- Resources do not replenish themselves over time.

- The only way in most games to remove an unnecessary unit is to destroy it.

- You have no idea where you are. Plus, there are no Spy Satellites. Thus, the map begins all black.

- Your forces are usually a mix of ground troops, tanks and aircraft vehicles. Naval forces are optional.

- An aircraft attack unit armed with missiles can't kill a trooper in one shot, even with a direct hit. Chainguns work better somehow.

#7 Breakin' The Rules!!

Quote:- Have two sides wage war on their bid for global domination.
Side B (AKA "Bad Guys") wants to conquer the world so they can destroy it;
Side A (AKA "Good Guys") wants to rule the world in the name of justice and peace.

- Multiple sides, as many as there are commanders. Also just as many worlds to conquer. Great, overwhelming armies threatened by allied retaliation.

Quote:- This war is waged on battlefields across the world, yet battles occur in places where there aren't civilians unless one of the mission's objectives is to either protect or destroy them. Civilian property, if present, is always expendable and/or for comic relief.

- War is waged in battles that can take place millions of lightyears away, as well as up close and personal. The life of entire planets can be devistated. Civilians are your people or your enemies people, but effect the war on both sides!

Quote:- There is only one way to make cash; harvesting a resource. Often involves something mineral in nature but can be exotic and alien. Some examples to get your creative juice flowing: alien mineral, ore, gold, gems, oil, uranium, copper, gas, etc..

- Cash and resources are one in the same, generating trade as well as new technology. A planet could be dead from lack of resources, or they might just be hidden from the unexperienced. How you harvest these resources could make or break an army. There are tons of different resources, each planet consisting of it's own make-up of raw minerals and materials.

Quote:- You have no idea where you are. Plus, there are no Spy Satellites. Thus, the map begins all black.

- You know what you can afford to know. All matter of spy technology can be used to paint a bullseye on the enemy. It all depends on your commanding research to aquire these technologies.

Quote:- Your forces are usually a mix of ground troops, tanks and aircraft vehicles. Naval forces are optional.

- Forces built to take advantage of all battle situations, from platoon and geurilla warfare to intergalactic space battles, all under command by the soldiers within your armies. Anything is optional, anything is possible.

Quote:- An aircraft attack unit armed with missiles can't kill a trooper in one shot, even with a direct hit. Chainguns work better somehow.

- Fully realistic battles, down to the last drop of blood. From the simple to the complex, napalm bombing, gigantic, roving bases of destruction, even the rare catastrophic world cataclysim by use of a core detonator, everything deals fully realistic damage as well as soaks it like a dampened sponge in full detail.

That's just the tip of the iceberg for UG I mentioned in my last post.

The FPS players can take on missions depending on their skills and their commanders' intentions. With higher rank comes the ability to man greater weapons of mass destruction.

Individual cities seek your protection and provide mass resource gathering, and when under your command, provide recruits and research as well as civil retaliation.

Like I mentioned, there's tons of work to be done :)

- Chris

#8 These are just some of the stuff seen on every RTS game. And although I do not intend to follow these rules of thumb, I am not trying to make a reallistic game either.

I will continue modifying that formula with more data, as currently I am with a little more free time between projects.

#9 Here is the thing you have to remember about genre names:

Genre names are made to describe certain games, not abstract concepts. The words in the name do not by themselves describe the genre.

What I mean is, plenty of games take place in real time and have strategy, but are not "RTS" games. Plenty of games have no real roleplaying but are "RPG" games.

Just like in fiction, a "Romance Novel" is a very specific type of book. You can write a book about all about romance and it may not be a Romance Novel.

There is not point in getting hung up on names anyway. Whether or not a game technically qualifies as RTS or not is irrelevant. If you want to make a real-time game make it, and let other people decide if it is an "RTS or not. Who knows, maybe your game will spawn a new genre title. (As Populous spawned "God Game" for example)

#10 I thought it was sim city that spawned god games, oh well, I dunno, I think that when you make a game you shouldn't decide that it will be of a certain genre, just decide what features it will have and howw it plays and if that turns out to be a genre so be it

#11 I'm starting work on a 3D RTS based on Torque. I founded my company about 2 years ago now with the intention of only creating genre busting games, and this RTS is no exception. When a genre IS able to be boiled down to a cookie cutter recipe, it's in a sad state and needs some major innovation.

#12 Anyone here play Natural Selection? For those who don't know its a RTS/FPS mod for half-life that is VERY good. It is really fun to play and it allows newbies to get into it wihtout throwing everything at them.

For those who dont' know here is the gameplay. YOu have two different sides, each with their own different strategies. With the marines you have a commander. He has a over the top view of the whole level. He places down structures, gives waypoints, upgrades weapons/armor, and commands his troops to victory. When he drops a structure his troops (or him if he gets out of the chair) must finish the building of it in order for it to become accessable (sp). The aliens don't have a commander. Instead they must work differently. A teamate evolves into a builder class (gorge) and he is in charge of using his resources to build "structures" and heal them so they are usable. Their upgrades come from defensive towers, movemnet towers, and sensory towers that they build. When you get enough hives (main bases) and resources you can morph into other more powerfull evolutions to destroy the marines. EAch side uses resources and must build a resource tower on top of a node..

anywyas point being its a really good fps/rts game with a really good rts and fps mixture and it has done successfull so far.

--KallDrexx

#13 Game Industry is definetely reaching the limits of computer capabilities and it is time for new components to appear on the market. Not better video cards of fancy colored CPU holders, but definetely something to allow for easier and quicker manipulation of data. We're using the same keyboard and mouse systems for almost a decade (I think) despite certain refinements on their workings (Trackball and infrared, for example). Some games just make you feel that there's so much being thrown at you and that you lack something .

#14 The games industry isn't even close to the limits of modern 3d cards / processors. Cards like the Ati 9700 are far more powerful than even their impressive fill rate. Just people can't target their high end features since it's such a small market at the moment. If you've ever seen the Dawn demo or Ogre etc. running on the GeforceFx you'd agree.

Interface wise we could really do with better access methods. Cyber gloves etc. look like they my evntually come back, but the high end ones still close many thousands a piece. The resistive / force feedback versions are still about 1/4 million for a pair!

Personally I can't wait until Steel Battalion gets to the Uk. Now that's a controller :)

#15 I don't mean to change the heading of this post, but I think that some games just don't push players further because they lack the means for that. Uprising and Sacrifice already tried and though the game was fun, it could overwhelm players at some moments. The danger of incorporating different genres on one game is that it may end up confusing the player more than it entertains him/her.

Just imagine if you had to build structures and train troops like you do in C&C-/Warcraft-style games as you are jumping, running and shooting and floating with a parachute like one can do in MDK. Then, imagine you had just killed enough people to go up a level with your character (that cannot die, else the game ends) and had to adjust your skill points amidst combat to purchase a badly-needed spell to stall your enemies (which must be done on a different screen or requires the use of the mouse, which is busy guiding your line of sight).

Overwhelming enough for a newbie player?

#16 An real-time strategy game is such that it should require strategy, but the game time is measured in minutes and seconds rather than plies and turns. I agree, Mauri: Why should they all be about frontline war?

Final Fantasy Tactics (a game that indies love to bring up =-) was not just a frontline war game. It was a story about a young scapegoat who has enemies at every corner. His friends turn out to be greedy, and many turn against him. The battle just happens.

The resolution of the game did not end at macro-resolution, where men are called "units" and sacrificed for the good of the rest. Like the RPG that it is at heart, it went further. It was personal when a man fell. You knew his name. You knew how long you'd had him. You had invested in his well-being, and in his capability as a soldier. This was micro-resolution at its best!

It isn't bad to make a wam-bam action RTS (though the format could use some changing) but it just won't compare to games that really do require thought, forethought, and strategy.

But hey, there's no need to complain in this industry! If you're upset about something, just get over it and do something different. :)

#17 Id love to see some rts resources and exaples for torque anyone have any?

#18 Personally RTS doesn't necessarily mean war to me. Or sides. The only element that should be there is the real-time strategy. I know that sounds silly but otherwise why would you call your game an RTS?

Warcraft and games like that all set some kind of standard for the RTS formula. Sure, it had one race vs. another, but then with WCIII they created additional races so it wasn't just Orc vs. Humans (or Axis vs. Allies, etc.)

Some of the basic RTS elements you should see in any game that wants to call it one of these would be:
* Everything happens in real-time and not turn based. Real-time isn't necessarily "real" as in human measurement of time (it sure takes me longer than 45 seconds to build a house) but the real element is
* Units. These are the workers of your system and should have some task, whether it's building structures, digging a ditch, or fighting an enemie.
* Resources. These are the things your works produce or use to produce. There's also a typcial resource tree involved here that shows the dependancies and what is needed to build something.

Other things that are present in typical RTS systems but not necessary:
* cameras where you can view what units are doing or generally look at your little empire
* mini-maps to see the entire game and where things are
* buffs and whatnot to increase the capabilities of your system

Personally I would love to build a RTS game that had no sides and was more of a social RTS where you built your world up, dealing with resource management and evolutionary aspects. Of course some people would say that starts encroaching on the simulation type gamespace now.

The interesting thing, from a game design perspective, it combining elements of game genres (like what Natural Selection did where it was an RTS game in a FPS setting). Then you start taxing peoples brain and they don't immediatly go to the place where it's your typical "collect-build-fight" cycle that RTS games are notorious for.

#19 Incidentally, some of us at GG have been working on an RTS content pack. You should be seeing more information about it soon.

#20 Whoops, check the IOTD!