DSQ animations only seem to include the dummy nodes, not the skeleton?
by J "hplus" W · in Artist Corner · 06/04/2009 (10:28 pm) · 13 replies
I'm trying to export an animated character to a .dts and a .dsq file. I'm using 3ds Max 2009. I have rigged the file according to the instructions I can find. It exports without error.
However, when I open into ShowToolPro 1.04, the animations only move the fingertip dummy nodes. When I look at the tracks in the STP, it only animates some nodes named Dummyxxx, not any of the skeleton.
What am I doing wrong? To help you help me, I've uploaded the Max file and textures, as well as the currently exported files, to http://www.enchantedage.com/sites/default/files/ChinaGirl4.zip -- it's about a 2.5 MB download.
Also, after export, the textures don't show up on the mesh. I'm assuming it's something dumb I'm doing wrong here as well, but I haven't worried about going that far yet; I need skinned animation to work first!
However, when I open into ShowToolPro 1.04, the animations only move the fingertip dummy nodes. When I look at the tracks in the STP, it only animates some nodes named Dummyxxx, not any of the skeleton.
What am I doing wrong? To help you help me, I've uploaded the Max file and textures, as well as the currently exported files, to http://www.enchantedage.com/sites/default/files/ChinaGirl4.zip -- it's about a 2.5 MB download.
Also, after export, the textures don't show up on the mesh. I'm assuming it's something dumb I'm doing wrong here as well, but I haven't worried about going that far yet; I need skinned animation to work first!
#2
Physique uses a different system which doesn't store the data in the vertex level and thus its much more difficult to get the bone influence data out and this is why Torque and most other game engines on the planet do not support Physique.
There was a utility provided by Autodesk that used to convert Physique to Skin that was on their developer/sparks site.
06/05/2009 (12:57 pm)
The reason why Torque (and almost every other game engine on the planet) uses Skin instead of Physique is that Skin scores the bone deformation weights in the vertex. This data is easily read and exported out for the vertex shader to use in the game engine. Physique uses a different system which doesn't store the data in the vertex level and thus its much more difficult to get the bone influence data out and this is why Torque and most other game engines on the planet do not support Physique.
There was a utility provided by Autodesk that used to convert Physique to Skin that was on their developer/sparks site.
#3
Actually, all the good ones support both. Having written exporters myself, I don't think the Physique path is all that much harder than the ISkin path.
The Autodesk utility to convert Physique to Skin was deprecated after Max version 7, because they decided to support both forever. Thus, I would assume any real exporter would support both as well. If you (as the exporter developer) don't want to do it yourself, you can try using IGame, which makes both Skin and Physique look the same. However, I've found IGame to be even buggier than the regular Max API, so I'd just go straight to the regular interface if it were me.
I actually tried looking for the source code (I'm a TGEA licensee) but it appears it's not part of TGEA, but only TGE. I presume this means you can't actually export shader parameters from Max with DTS?
I downloaded the TGE version of max2dtsExporter, but the project file was for Max 4 (snicker :-), and after upgrading, the exporter doesn't build. Apparently some utility mesh class has been upgraded to support multiple UV coordinates, but the max2dtsExporter project has not.
Where can I find the sources for the actual exporter used, so I can start trying to put it right?
06/05/2009 (2:09 pm)
Quote:and almost every other game engine on the planet
Actually, all the good ones support both. Having written exporters myself, I don't think the Physique path is all that much harder than the ISkin path.
The Autodesk utility to convert Physique to Skin was deprecated after Max version 7, because they decided to support both forever. Thus, I would assume any real exporter would support both as well. If you (as the exporter developer) don't want to do it yourself, you can try using IGame, which makes both Skin and Physique look the same. However, I've found IGame to be even buggier than the regular Max API, so I'd just go straight to the regular interface if it were me.
I actually tried looking for the source code (I'm a TGEA licensee) but it appears it's not part of TGEA, but only TGE. I presume this means you can't actually export shader parameters from Max with DTS?
I downloaded the TGE version of max2dtsExporter, but the project file was for Max 4 (snicker :-), and after upgrading, the exporter doesn't build. Apparently some utility mesh class has been upgraded to support multiple UV coordinates, but the max2dtsExporter project has not.
Where can I find the sources for the actual exporter used, so I can start trying to put it right?
#4
06/05/2009 (2:56 pm)
That would be the source. GarageGames hasn't officially updated it in ages, all of the versions for 3DS Max since R4 have simply been recompiles done by the community.
#5
That's... troubling. Almost as if they just want your money, but don't want to do any actual work for it.
I had forgotten how frustrating it was to try to get real work done on Torque. I'm now starting to remember again...
06/06/2009 (9:20 am)
Quote:GarageGames hasn't officially updated it in ages
That's... troubling. Almost as if they just want your money, but don't want to do any actual work for it.
I had forgotten how frustrating it was to try to get real work done on Torque. I'm now starting to remember again...
#6
In the past tools development and support was less of a priority (lots of reason, none of them I feel airing in public because its in the past) but with Torque3D, tools development has taken a huge boost/priority. One of these boosts is that there is an internal guy in GG who is responsible for updating the art tools such as the DTS exporter code and hopefully we will see the results soon (another of course is the option for Collada support which has its benefits).
Now I doubt that you will see Physique support, you are probably the first guy to actually make a huge deal about it in years and like I said I really havent heard of a studio that uses it for their games work. But I guess when the new DTS stuff comes out you can go ahead like you said and add it in for yourself.
I hope that this helps explain a few things. I am sure that if you have further issues you can contact them about them.
06/06/2009 (10:51 pm)
That's not really a fair assessment. When you look at GarageGames today you need to best think of it as version 2.0 and not base your opinions on the 1.0 days (which everyone, even GG, will admit had issues).In the past tools development and support was less of a priority (lots of reason, none of them I feel airing in public because its in the past) but with Torque3D, tools development has taken a huge boost/priority. One of these boosts is that there is an internal guy in GG who is responsible for updating the art tools such as the DTS exporter code and hopefully we will see the results soon (another of course is the option for Collada support which has its benefits).
Now I doubt that you will see Physique support, you are probably the first guy to actually make a huge deal about it in years and like I said I really havent heard of a studio that uses it for their games work. But I guess when the new DTS stuff comes out you can go ahead like you said and add it in for yourself.
I hope that this helps explain a few things. I am sure that if you have further issues you can contact them about them.
#7
The Skin modifier is also much easier to setup than Physique in my opinion.
However, a quick google search turned up this, which is a MaxScript that can convert Physique models to Skin. I've never used it personally, but maybe it will help.
Edit: There is also an updated version here, though I'm not sure if this version has the Physique->Skin conversion support.
06/07/2009 (1:19 am)
The only game I have seen that uses physique and only physique for its models is Savage: Battle for Newerth. Prior to that game I had never heard of physique, and only used the Skin modifier for all my model riggings.The Skin modifier is also much easier to setup than Physique in my opinion.
However, a quick google search turned up this, which is a MaxScript that can convert Physique models to Skin. I've never used it personally, but maybe it will help.
Edit: There is also an updated version here, though I'm not sure if this version has the Physique->Skin conversion support.
#8
See, I heard that same story with Torque GE -> TGEA. Except, when I checked out the TGEA source, I didn't even get any tools at all, and the tools that are available (part of TGE) don't actually work or compile.
Repeat story for Torque X. Compare to Blade3D -- that's what Torque X should have been, IMO. (And that's only $15/month).
Not to mention T3D is significantly more expensive than TGEA or TGE. A lot more expensive than other engines with significantly better support, such as the C4 engine, for example -- in fact, almost as expensive as a PRO licsense for Unity3D. And Unity has good tools!
Maybe you'll find people who will believe you (there's one born every minute, according to P.T. Barnum), but I need actual proof. The current state of TGEA is not that proof.
Some game engines or exporters that support Physique:
- Gamebryo
- Granny3D
- Unity3D
- XNA / kW X-port
- Anything with COLLADA (such as C4, JMonkey, etc)
06/10/2009 (11:27 am)
Quote:with Torque3D
See, I heard that same story with Torque GE -> TGEA. Except, when I checked out the TGEA source, I didn't even get any tools at all, and the tools that are available (part of TGE) don't actually work or compile.
Repeat story for Torque X. Compare to Blade3D -- that's what Torque X should have been, IMO. (And that's only $15/month).
Not to mention T3D is significantly more expensive than TGEA or TGE. A lot more expensive than other engines with significantly better support, such as the C4 engine, for example -- in fact, almost as expensive as a PRO licsense for Unity3D. And Unity has good tools!
Maybe you'll find people who will believe you (there's one born every minute, according to P.T. Barnum), but I need actual proof. The current state of TGEA is not that proof.
Some game engines or exporters that support Physique:
- Gamebryo
- Granny3D
- Unity3D
- XNA / kW X-port
- Anything with COLLADA (such as C4, JMonkey, etc)
#9
I got absolutely zero support, and the exporters available are for versions of 3ds max that are over ten years old.
This is in response to things I bought from "Garage Games 2.0" -- so, in what way is this better than, say, three years ago?
09/09/2009 (1:28 am)
Well, Garage Games today will sell you a license for Torque Game Engine, and then sell you a license upgrade for Torque Game Engine Advanced.I got absolutely zero support, and the exporters available are for versions of 3ds max that are over ten years old.
This is in response to things I bought from "Garage Games 2.0" -- so, in what way is this better than, say, three years ago?
#10
By the way GG engines are very good at all and have acceptable prices.
I doubt you can find better for that much.
09/09/2009 (1:48 pm)
try using T3D instead of the older engines(TGE /TGEA) and you will have no problems with exporting art. COLLADA solves these issues. By the way GG engines are very good at all and have acceptable prices.
I doubt you can find better for that much.
#11
I don't particularly want to pay another $995, when I have already paid for engines that are on display. Given that I'm not targeting shader-capable hardware, I don't see how T3D will help.
Saying that COLLADA solves the problem is really quite amusing, given that there aren't two versions of the COLLADA exporters for 3ds Max that export the same file from the same scene. They are all broken in various amusing ways (or not).
If I wanted to target shader hardware, I'd probably use my C4 engine license. At least with C4, you don't only get real answers to questions on the forums, but it's been continually updated with new versions and bug fixes for the last five years.
But I don't want to talk about other engines. I want to talk about the engines that I have purchsed, and that are still on sale on this web site. If "Garage Games" is really 2.0, then I assume that they have "2.0" support for what they sell, right?
09/09/2009 (2:38 pm)
Quote:try using T3D instead of the older engines(TGE /TGEA) and you will have no problems with exporting art. COLLADA solves these issues.
I don't particularly want to pay another $995, when I have already paid for engines that are on display. Given that I'm not targeting shader-capable hardware, I don't see how T3D will help.
Saying that COLLADA solves the problem is really quite amusing, given that there aren't two versions of the COLLADA exporters for 3ds Max that export the same file from the same scene. They are all broken in various amusing ways (or not).
If I wanted to target shader hardware, I'd probably use my C4 engine license. At least with C4, you don't only get real answers to questions on the forums, but it's been continually updated with new versions and bug fixes for the last five years.
But I don't want to talk about other engines. I want to talk about the engines that I have purchsed, and that are still on sale on this web site. If "Garage Games" is really 2.0, then I assume that they have "2.0" support for what they sell, right?
#12
For the support - here is the community. Give your questions here.
09/09/2009 (5:51 pm)
I don't know if there is a trial of T3D but if so give it a try. I was talking about collada because in T3D the "exporter" is built in the engine. I am sure you won't have any problems with it.For the support - here is the community. Give your questions here.
#13
I have to pay $1,000 to get the source. Not gonna happen!
I am, but answers are few and far between. (In fact, I used to be part of the community, and have several resources and bug fixes to my name).
09/09/2009 (6:39 pm)
Quote:I don't know if there is a trial of T3D but if so give it a try.
I have to pay $1,000 to get the source. Not gonna happen!
Quote:For the support - here is the community. Give your questions here.
I am, but answers are few and far between. (In fact, I used to be part of the community, and have several resources and bug fixes to my name).
Torque Owner J "hplus" W