Action MMO in Torque?
by Bearses · in Torque X 3D · 05/31/2009 (8:15 pm) · 8 replies
I've been spending a lot of time over at the Unity3D forums, trying to figure out if it was the right tool to use for my MMO, or not.
They boast being Browser Based MMO enabled (which is what I aim to do), but I don't really see that. The solutions available are add-on sdks/ides/whatnot, and cost up to 30,000. That's what it would cost to Buy Unity Pro 20 times over.
That's not what I call MMO enabled. Everyone says that TGEA had limiting networking capabilities (not counting the mmo kit), but on the TX3D page, it says:
Is this out-of-box? How much coding/customization would it take to actually get something like that running?
They boast being Browser Based MMO enabled (which is what I aim to do), but I don't really see that. The solutions available are add-on sdks/ides/whatnot, and cost up to 30,000. That's what it would cost to Buy Unity Pro 20 times over.
That's not what I call MMO enabled. Everyone says that TGEA had limiting networking capabilities (not counting the mmo kit), but on the TX3D page, it says:
Quote:Torque's industry leading networking library is unmatched for latency sensitive, scalable multi-player interaction. Using minimal bandwidth per player, Torque supports fast-paced, latency sensitive multi-player racing games with vehicle collision and FPS games with fast projectiles and collisions up to 256 players per server. For less latency sensitive simulations like MMORPGs, virtual worlds, etc., Torque can support 1000+ players per server.
Is this out-of-box? How much coding/customization would it take to actually get something like that running?
#2
Also, how is torquescript and the game building environment? Is it just as easy to use as Unity, because I really liked that about it (unity).
05/31/2009 (8:51 pm)
okay, what about torque 3d?Also, how is torquescript and the game building environment? Is it just as easy to use as Unity, because I really liked that about it (unity).
#3
Life lesson: Always read marketing material with a grain of salt.
Torque has decent networking but it's not some magical string of code that's going to do it (make a smooth running MMO) for you. As with any engine, to utilize the networking code you still need to incorporate it into your game and use its functions correctly (in Torque's case, scoping of objects, client interpolation and writing code that sends an efficient amount of data over the network etc). Long story short, even with a networking library, networking is NOT automatic.
05/31/2009 (9:47 pm)
Nothing to do with an MMO or networking is ever "out-of-box".Life lesson: Always read marketing material with a grain of salt.
Torque has decent networking but it's not some magical string of code that's going to do it (make a smooth running MMO) for you. As with any engine, to utilize the networking code you still need to incorporate it into your game and use its functions correctly (in Torque's case, scoping of objects, client interpolation and writing code that sends an efficient amount of data over the network etc). Long story short, even with a networking library, networking is NOT automatic.
#4
I am. Hence my posting here.
I'm not expecting automatic, and that's not at all what I asked. I'm not asking if it comes with MMO Architecture, I just want to know if the capabilities are there without adding on any other plugins. That's what I meant by out of box.
With Unity, they are not. In unity, it's almost impossible to make an mmo without source, which is out of my price range (six figures).
I'm just one person obviously, and I don't expect to do this myself. I'm currently working on a tech demo/detailed design document to attract developers.
Please forgive my candid tone, but it's really annoying to have to sort through lectures every time I ask a question. Seriously, people on forums are so fussy.
Anyway, what's your experience with Torque 3D's networking capabilities?
05/31/2009 (10:33 pm)
Quote:Life lesson: Always read marketing material with a grain of salt.
I am. Hence my posting here.
I'm not expecting automatic, and that's not at all what I asked. I'm not asking if it comes with MMO Architecture, I just want to know if the capabilities are there without adding on any other plugins. That's what I meant by out of box.
With Unity, they are not. In unity, it's almost impossible to make an mmo without source, which is out of my price range (six figures).
I'm just one person obviously, and I don't expect to do this myself. I'm currently working on a tech demo/detailed design document to attract developers.
Please forgive my candid tone, but it's really annoying to have to sort through lectures every time I ask a question. Seriously, people on forums are so fussy.
Anyway, what's your experience with Torque 3D's networking capabilities?
#5
However, it probably won't be easy. You WILL most likely need to modify the network architecture in some way. MMOs are no small task, and many teams that attempt to develop them, fail. Miserably.
There HAVE been successful MMOs developed with Torque already though, the most prominent probably being Minions of Mirth.
So, in my opinion, Torque is well worth the money. If I ever had the desire to make an MMO of some kind, I would most certainly use Torque as a base. Anything it can't already do out of the box can be added by a competent programmer. I've never tried Unity, but with their prices, I don't exactly want to.
06/01/2009 (12:28 am)
Yes, you can make an MMO with Torque. It doesn't really matter which version you have, either: TGE, TGEA, Torque 3D--they're all capable of being converted into an MMO (since, after all, you're given the source code). You could also purchase one of the MMO starter kits, and with Torque 3D, you can even embed your game in a web browser. However, it probably won't be easy. You WILL most likely need to modify the network architecture in some way. MMOs are no small task, and many teams that attempt to develop them, fail. Miserably.
There HAVE been successful MMOs developed with Torque already though, the most prominent probably being Minions of Mirth.
So, in my opinion, Torque is well worth the money. If I ever had the desire to make an MMO of some kind, I would most certainly use Torque as a base. Anything it can't already do out of the box can be added by a competent programmer. I've never tried Unity, but with their prices, I don't exactly want to.
#6
06/01/2009 (5:39 am)
Lots of threads in this thread (plus some advice at the top for aspiring MMO makers).
#7
I've decided to go with unity after all (I think it's strengths outweigh it's weaknesses), and am currently reading up on networking, sql, .net, and C#!
P.S. Nice collection of links, Ted. That must have taken a while. o_o
06/01/2009 (10:08 am)
thanks a ton for all the info everyone! ^_^I've decided to go with unity after all (I think it's strengths outweigh it's weaknesses), and am currently reading up on networking, sql, .net, and C#!
P.S. Nice collection of links, Ted. That must have taken a while. o_o
#8
In my opinion you aren't going to find a package that will give you what you want. That is just my opinion but what few packages I have seen, depending on you content and if you are make zones ala EQ or Zoning WOW style, the things can be very different. Making an MMO that runs really well is not going to happen without writing a ton of you own code and making you server/client communication fit the game that you are making, there is far to many things that need to be taking into account for any package to really work well. This is not to say that cannot make a game with some of the MMO middle-ware out there cause you CAN, but you will get the MMO the kit was made for and too much deviation from the core of functionality, or adding in other functionality that is network intensive will have possible adverse effect on other network performance. If you play WOW go to www.Curse.com or other places to get WOW MODS and take a look at how much some of those MODs slow down things. mostly any slowdown is when talking about MODs come from people using tons of em when they ddont have the RAM to be running all those, but there are map ones that look for position of other players and such, the reason for so much lag in Dalaran(for everyone) is because of trying to communicate 100's of players positions. There is so much to consider when building an MMO my friends if you know how to program make you own server using Torque for a client isn't a bad idea just know what your getting into, you will have to code much of the functionality that you want although the old MMO kit from DreamRPG was a huge help for a place to start for mine which will be done in a few months, after I use it as my resume and my job is secure I will be happy to post it here for the entire community to use at your discretion, but that will be a while as this is my serior year in game programming school. Good luck to you friend!
06/01/2009 (10:11 am)
Networking and MMO's....hmmmmIn my opinion you aren't going to find a package that will give you what you want. That is just my opinion but what few packages I have seen, depending on you content and if you are make zones ala EQ or Zoning WOW style, the things can be very different. Making an MMO that runs really well is not going to happen without writing a ton of you own code and making you server/client communication fit the game that you are making, there is far to many things that need to be taking into account for any package to really work well. This is not to say that cannot make a game with some of the MMO middle-ware out there cause you CAN, but you will get the MMO the kit was made for and too much deviation from the core of functionality, or adding in other functionality that is network intensive will have possible adverse effect on other network performance. If you play WOW go to www.Curse.com or other places to get WOW MODS and take a look at how much some of those MODs slow down things. mostly any slowdown is when talking about MODs come from people using tons of em when they ddont have the RAM to be running all those, but there are map ones that look for position of other players and such, the reason for so much lag in Dalaran(for everyone) is because of trying to communicate 100's of players positions. There is so much to consider when building an MMO my friends if you know how to program make you own server using Torque for a client isn't a bad idea just know what your getting into, you will have to code much of the functionality that you want although the old MMO kit from DreamRPG was a huge help for a place to start for mine which will be done in a few months, after I use it as my resume and my job is secure I will be happy to post it here for the entire community to use at your discretion, but that will be a while as this is my serior year in game programming school. Good luck to you friend!
Associate John Kanalakis
EnvyGames
John K.
www.envygames.com