does show tool still work?
by Steve · in Torque 3D Professional · 05/30/2009 (3:45 pm) · 13 replies
I watched a video where Lara Engebretson imported an animated cube from Collada into Torque. She used Show Tool Pro along the way. I can not get any DTS's at all to show up in Show Tool. Even DTS's that I have already imported to T3D (I imported them as .DAE) , so I know they work, they won't show up at all in Show Tool. Am I doing something wrong?
#2
05/30/2009 (5:00 pm)
Well, it's good to know I'm not totally inept. Thanks for the quick reply. I am still puzzled, however, about how Lara got it to work in her video tutorial on the Collada Loader. I am trying to use that video to teach myself how to get an animated 3D max model into Torque, so it would be good to know if she is doing anything else that won't work anymore. 
#3
05/30/2009 (7:04 pm)
@Tom, is that since Beta 2? Because iirc, we got models "compiled" by T3D show in ShowTool once (didnt tried it again though). 
#4
The problem with outputing the old format was that it would loose some data it gathered from the Collada file.
There has been a discussion about totally redesigning the DTS format to allow for extension data that would not break compatibility with old formats, but time is running out and i don't think we'll get to it for this version of T3D.
05/30/2009 (7:17 pm)
I think at some point there was a compatibility mode where it would save it out to the old format... but i think that was before beta 1.The problem with outputing the old format was that it would loose some data it gathered from the Collada file.
There has been a discussion about totally redesigning the DTS format to allow for extension data that would not break compatibility with old formats, but time is running out and i don't think we'll get to it for this version of T3D.
#5
Thanks for the insight, btw; that is the eternal dilemma. Backwards compatibility means easy movement among engine versions, but also increases the legacy code on the new format...
I guess if its not there on the initial launch, there would be little point in making it into the further releases?
05/30/2009 (9:08 pm)
Yep, we made it as trick to turn T3D as an "exporter" for the new 3DSMax.Thanks for the insight, btw; that is the eternal dilemma. Backwards compatibility means easy movement among engine versions, but also increases the legacy code on the new format...
I guess if its not there on the initial launch, there would be little point in making it into the further releases?
#6
In particular there are two issues... autobillboards and vertex color.
The old format would stuff all the autobillboard information into a single 32bit value. This was a bad mistake... the tiny space savings wasn't worth it 10 years ago or so when the code was originally written... and even less worth it now. This limited you from having billboards larger than 64x64 or more than 4 images around the equator.
We fixed this by explicitly storing the autobillboard information in the file which breaks the file format for old DTS tools.
Vertex color was never supported by DTS, so that just has to be added when an imported Collada file has it.
While we could output the old format when your not using autobillboard or vertex color... it seems to me it causes massive confusion. Some Torque 3D exported DTSs would work in ShowTool and others would not. Worse from the outside you cannot tell if the file would work at all.
So i hate breaking ShowTool compatibility... but we've run out of good options.
05/30/2009 (9:23 pm)
Well Torque 3D imports old formats... it just doesn't export the old formats.In particular there are two issues... autobillboards and vertex color.
The old format would stuff all the autobillboard information into a single 32bit value. This was a bad mistake... the tiny space savings wasn't worth it 10 years ago or so when the code was originally written... and even less worth it now. This limited you from having billboards larger than 64x64 or more than 4 images around the equator.
We fixed this by explicitly storing the autobillboard information in the file which breaks the file format for old DTS tools.
Vertex color was never supported by DTS, so that just has to be added when an imported Collada file has it.
While we could output the old format when your not using autobillboard or vertex color... it seems to me it causes massive confusion. Some Torque 3D exported DTSs would work in ShowTool and others would not. Worse from the outside you cannot tell if the file would work at all.
So i hate breaking ShowTool compatibility... but we've run out of good options.
#7
Yes, completely agree, that would definitively add confusion to the cause. Although having two versions of DTS would probably not help either. Why not change the extension?
And btw, breaking ShowToolPro compatibility would probably be for good, the real issue here is the need for update/rewrite that tool.
05/30/2009 (9:54 pm)
Autobillboards? long time no see... that was even working on the 'old' DTS's?Yes, completely agree, that would definitively add confusion to the cause. Although having two versions of DTS would probably not help either. Why not change the extension?
And btw, breaking ShowToolPro compatibility would probably be for good, the real issue here is the need for update/rewrite that tool.
#8
First... they work.
Second they are really fast now... they batch together to render in a single draw call when possible.
Third they generate normal maps and don't bake in lighting. In Advanced Lighting mode point lights work on billboards and look almost like the real thing.
Fourth they take up very little video memory now. They are atlased into a single texture per-model and DDS compressed.
Everyone building outdoor environments should be using autobillboards in their DTS models.
05/30/2009 (10:49 pm)
Autobillboards are back and badder than ever!First... they work.
Second they are really fast now... they batch together to render in a single draw call when possible.
Third they generate normal maps and don't bake in lighting. In Advanced Lighting mode point lights work on billboards and look almost like the real thing.
Fourth they take up very little video memory now. They are atlased into a single texture per-model and DDS compressed.
Everyone building outdoor environments should be using autobillboards in their DTS models.
#9
05/31/2009 (6:52 am)
Cheers and congrats for all that brillant work! 
#10
05/31/2009 (8:35 am)
Tom if you guys can, you should maybe upload a sample file (source & dts maybe) so that people can see it for themselves and how to set it up in the Collada.
#11
06/01/2009 (4:06 am)
Hmmm, these autobillboards interest me. Do we need something special on the Collada itself or can it be done via TSShapeContructor?
#12
07/28/2009 (8:57 pm)
I would be interested in some sample files with animations. Im still having issues getting animated objects ingame 
#13
07/29/2009 (5:48 am)
I am using Show Tool for DTS exports out of XSI Mod Tool with no issues. Though that is for non-animated objects. 
Associate Tom Spilman
Sickhead Games