Interior Lighting... Isn't It Supposed To Be Dark....
by Michael Hense · in Torque Game Engine · 02/06/2003 (7:36 pm) · 11 replies
... inside a closed building.
I made and interior in Worldcraft, loaded it into an existing level, and the lighting seems to bleed through the walls and light the back facing wall.
The interior is closed, no windows... I would imagine the lighting pass would not 'light up' the inside.
Any insights to this guys?
Thanks
--Mike
I made and interior in Worldcraft, loaded it into an existing level, and the lighting seems to bleed through the walls and light the back facing wall.
The interior is closed, no windows... I would imagine the lighting pass would not 'light up' the inside.
Any insights to this guys?
Thanks
--Mike
#2
the roof and floor should extend out above and under the walls..
also if it bleeds badly you can always place a brush as a trim to cover the seam to stop light from entering.. its hard to explain...
also you can use map properties to add ambient lighting thus stopiping the leaks also..
like how these pics are
This is with portals but only light omni entities....
This is with portals and ambient lighting
Ambient lighting is good if you dont need to have key lighting.. ie spot lights or other light specific areas.. it will flood the whole base.. or building...
It will only work tho if you have all openings plugged with portals.. otherwise it wont show..
and just for the heck of it... here is an outside picture to show trim work..
it helps block light by covering all seams that start from inside and could allow lighting in
02/06/2003 (9:27 pm)
yep, sounds like seams..the roof and floor should extend out above and under the walls..
also if it bleeds badly you can always place a brush as a trim to cover the seam to stop light from entering.. its hard to explain...
also you can use map properties to add ambient lighting thus stopiping the leaks also..
like how these pics are
This is with portals but only light omni entities....
This is with portals and ambient lighting
Ambient lighting is good if you dont need to have key lighting.. ie spot lights or other light specific areas.. it will flood the whole base.. or building...
It will only work tho if you have all openings plugged with portals.. otherwise it wont show..
and just for the heck of it... here is an outside picture to show trim work..
it helps block light by covering all seams that start from inside and could allow lighting in
#3
02/07/2003 (4:13 am)
Very nice work Tom!
#4
I started those a couple of days ago.. : )
I have a small little geocities web page that I put together on Worldcraft/Hammer..
Its at www.geocities.com/reconberk2001
02/07/2003 (7:07 am)
Thanks,I started those a couple of days ago.. : )
I have a small little geocities web page that I put together on Worldcraft/Hammer..
Its at www.geocities.com/reconberk2001
#5
... so, let me see if i understand... totally enclosed structures will be dark inside even if there is ambient light set in Torque lighting the outsides?
I am getting different results... just some proof of concept stuff for a submarine interior (im almost ashamed to post these after seeing your stuff :) )...
... the shots are of the inside of a cylinder made in Worldcraft, and simply hollowed out. There are no hatches or openings... but the light from the outside seems to come through the walls and paint the opposite facing walls.
I was expecting something similar to this...
... another test shot from inside lightmapped cylinder (also done in Worldcraft) where the only lights are from the lightmap (shot from 3DRAD)...
... and what if i had a few windows, I expected the exterior lights to shine through like below
Questions...
(1) is the last shot an exterior view of the same elvel with the same light that the inside shots were taken of?
(2) is the only way for me to control the interior lighting to take out all ambient lighting on the level, and add a light source to the level?
(3) how can i get my textures and detailing to look just like yours :) :) :) (sorry dont mean to embarrasss you)
Thanks for helping...
--Mike
02/07/2003 (11:48 am)
Yeah... those screen grabs look GREAT!!!... so, let me see if i understand... totally enclosed structures will be dark inside even if there is ambient light set in Torque lighting the outsides?
I am getting different results... just some proof of concept stuff for a submarine interior (im almost ashamed to post these after seeing your stuff :) )...
... the shots are of the inside of a cylinder made in Worldcraft, and simply hollowed out. There are no hatches or openings... but the light from the outside seems to come through the walls and paint the opposite facing walls.
I was expecting something similar to this...
... another test shot from inside lightmapped cylinder (also done in Worldcraft) where the only lights are from the lightmap (shot from 3DRAD)...
... and what if i had a few windows, I expected the exterior lights to shine through like below
Questions...
(1) is the last shot an exterior view of the same elvel with the same light that the inside shots were taken of?
(2) is the only way for me to control the interior lighting to take out all ambient lighting on the level, and add a light source to the level?
(3) how can i get my textures and detailing to look just like yours :) :) :) (sorry dont mean to embarrasss you)
Thanks for helping...
--Mike
#6
Ok first your using alot of faces.. I am guessing 32 sides on the cylinder.
This will cause your intersecting lines to be a little of to start.. then when you hollow it it will move more.. causing small cracks.. I point to your hole in shot 3 were you obviously carved a hole in the wall.. : )
notice the cracks.. this is caused by worldcraft shifting all vertices around to create the hole..
I would make the tube around 24 sides.. and make your walls alittle thicker.. even 64 if you can..
this will help abit.. now reduce your grid size way down to either 2 or 4..
this will allow the vertices to find intersections easier..
reducing the floating points...
I would also avoid carve and go with either vertex manipulation or clipping.. it will allow you to have a better control on were the points fall..
for clarification points are were the lines intersect.. : )
I dont know about Torque really but Tribes 2 will not show textures inside if it is completely enclosed.. Ie no holes.. maybe torque is different I havent had a chance to try it yet...
I would redo the tube and see if that helps out.. and for ambient lighting.. you can change the color to pitch black and it will be absolutely dark inside.. then add entities (pink boxes) and make them omni lights, then highlight them and press ALT-ENTER at the same time.. this will bring up a input box that you can add color/emergency-normal lighting(used with gens)/fall on and fall off.. fall on tells what light will fall on the wall and fall off tells light to fall on the rest of the room.. so try it as default and see how it looks and then adjust it to fit your needs...
the drop ship and cargo ship in the last pic up top are all the same.. I have been working with worldcraft for over a year and have made numerous objects.. and my first objects were really bad.. : )
I use all textures that I found on the internet by using a search for "free game textures"
It takes practice and patience but its worth it.. : )
I suggest using lots of trim work to make it look nice.. : )
by clipping a wall you can easily add trim work and clip off angles to make nice bevels.. thus adding more detail to your structure.. : )
I am always available to help out with any questions that people have with worldcraft and the link above has a few good tips.. some on lighting and other things..
02/07/2003 (12:12 pm)
I have a big heart so here goes..Ok first your using alot of faces.. I am guessing 32 sides on the cylinder.
This will cause your intersecting lines to be a little of to start.. then when you hollow it it will move more.. causing small cracks.. I point to your hole in shot 3 were you obviously carved a hole in the wall.. : )
notice the cracks.. this is caused by worldcraft shifting all vertices around to create the hole..
I would make the tube around 24 sides.. and make your walls alittle thicker.. even 64 if you can..
this will help abit.. now reduce your grid size way down to either 2 or 4..
this will allow the vertices to find intersections easier..
reducing the floating points...
I would also avoid carve and go with either vertex manipulation or clipping.. it will allow you to have a better control on were the points fall..
for clarification points are were the lines intersect.. : )
I dont know about Torque really but Tribes 2 will not show textures inside if it is completely enclosed.. Ie no holes.. maybe torque is different I havent had a chance to try it yet...
I would redo the tube and see if that helps out.. and for ambient lighting.. you can change the color to pitch black and it will be absolutely dark inside.. then add entities (pink boxes) and make them omni lights, then highlight them and press ALT-ENTER at the same time.. this will bring up a input box that you can add color/emergency-normal lighting(used with gens)/fall on and fall off.. fall on tells what light will fall on the wall and fall off tells light to fall on the rest of the room.. so try it as default and see how it looks and then adjust it to fit your needs...
the drop ship and cargo ship in the last pic up top are all the same.. I have been working with worldcraft for over a year and have made numerous objects.. and my first objects were really bad.. : )
I use all textures that I found on the internet by using a search for "free game textures"
It takes practice and patience but its worth it.. : )
I suggest using lots of trim work to make it look nice.. : )
by clipping a wall you can easily add trim work and clip off angles to make nice bevels.. thus adding more detail to your structure.. : )
I am always available to help out with any questions that people have with worldcraft and the link above has a few good tips.. some on lighting and other things..
#7
I am still working on the terrain to make it look more realistic.. I need to change the texture were the ship drug thru the ground to a more blackish rock type.. and then add some steam/smoke particle effects.. : )
And a shot of a level I finshed last month
It is better due to the extra details done.. I probably use 20-30 textures and just shrink or expand the texture itself in worldcraft to make it look different.. or line it up so you only see a section of a texture.. this way one texture gets many uses.. : )
how to change textures and align textures are also on my web site..
Also if you click on the TL button on the top of worldcraft it will help you alot.. TL is the texture lock button.. this locks the texture so even if you move the brush/copy and paste it it will not move.. so when you have a section done you can move it without the texture moving too..
hope it helps.. : )
02/07/2003 (12:33 pm)
And here is a pic of the ship in the level I am doing.. : )I am still working on the terrain to make it look more realistic.. I need to change the texture were the ship drug thru the ground to a more blackish rock type.. and then add some steam/smoke particle effects.. : )
And a shot of a level I finshed last month
It is better due to the extra details done.. I probably use 20-30 textures and just shrink or expand the texture itself in worldcraft to make it look different.. or line it up so you only see a section of a texture.. this way one texture gets many uses.. : )
how to change textures and align textures are also on my web site..
Also if you click on the TL button on the top of worldcraft it will help you alot.. TL is the texture lock button.. this locks the texture so even if you move the brush/copy and paste it it will not move.. so when you have a section done you can move it without the texture moving too..
hope it helps.. : )
#8
I really do apprciate you taking the time to share your experiences with me here...
...ok, lets see... as far as the complexity of the model, yep... i am using 18 sided cylinders, but i figured that this may be the cause, and i tried it with a simple hollowed cube... same results.
I'm gonna play around with Worldcraft a little more... see what happens... please monitor this thread and jump in at any time...
...thanks.
By the way, your latest group of screenshots are absolutely fantastic...
--Mike
02/07/2003 (2:41 pm)
Thanks Tom...I really do apprciate you taking the time to share your experiences with me here...
...ok, lets see... as far as the complexity of the model, yep... i am using 18 sided cylinders, but i figured that this may be the cause, and i tried it with a simple hollowed cube... same results.
I'm gonna play around with Worldcraft a little more... see what happens... please monitor this thread and jump in at any time...
...thanks.
By the way, your latest group of screenshots are absolutely fantastic...
--Mike
#9
hmmm.. did you try the map properties thing.. just click on "map" and go down to "map properties" then change ambient lighting to 255 255 220
this will give a nice light... and will remove all bleed thru..
or use it to your advantage and try this..
take a screen shot of the interior were the light is bleeding thru..
now make sure ambient lighting is 0 0 0 and that way its black..
now every spot you have bleed thru add a omni point light
this will disguis the light and you can control it..
just ideas..
but you may try making a small window and make a portal there.. then try it and see if the bleed thru stops..
if not then I would just go with full ambient and change the color til it stops bleeding out.. : )
you could even use a greyish color which will still make it somewhat dark and may get rid of the bleed thru... then you can add lighting at the spots you want..
02/07/2003 (2:54 pm)
hmm.. so there is no hole anywhere?hmmm.. did you try the map properties thing.. just click on "map" and go down to "map properties" then change ambient lighting to 255 255 220
this will give a nice light... and will remove all bleed thru..
or use it to your advantage and try this..
take a screen shot of the interior were the light is bleeding thru..
now make sure ambient lighting is 0 0 0 and that way its black..
now every spot you have bleed thru add a omni point light
this will disguis the light and you can control it..
just ideas..
but you may try making a small window and make a portal there.. then try it and see if the bleed thru stops..
if not then I would just go with full ambient and change the color til it stops bleeding out.. : )
you could even use a greyish color which will still make it somewhat dark and may get rid of the bleed thru... then you can add lighting at the spots you want..
#10
... believe it or not, the entire problem was caused by scaling.
I spent the entire evening playing around with the da#m thing, and I usually scale the objects down when I put them into a scene.
I accidentally added the hollowed cube without scaling it, relit the scene, and imagine the look of amazement when I entered the cube and it was darkened inside...
I was scaling everything down... for some reason it messes up the lighting and shadows... if I didn't accidentally come upon it, I would have never guessed something as trivial as that was what was causing the problem.
I can sleep tonight... :)
Is all your stuff scaled to the original size?
--Mike
02/07/2003 (7:41 pm)
Tom...... believe it or not, the entire problem was caused by scaling.
I spent the entire evening playing around with the da#m thing, and I usually scale the objects down when I put them into a scene.
I accidentally added the hollowed cube without scaling it, relit the scene, and imagine the look of amazement when I entered the cube and it was darkened inside...
I was scaling everything down... for some reason it messes up the lighting and shadows... if I didn't accidentally come upon it, I would have never guessed something as trivial as that was what was causing the problem.
I can sleep tonight... :)
Is all your stuff scaled to the original size?
--Mike
#11
I use a 16 grid size.. which if you make a brush 8 grid blocks high is roughly the height of a torque guy/ or t2 player..
so for a normal building I keep it about 16 grids high for a hallway.. and probably go up to 32 for a main room... due to jetting in t2..
I avoid scale because it too will move intersection points..
I try to keep it fairly straight forward.. : )
02/07/2003 (8:12 pm)
nopeI use a 16 grid size.. which if you make a brush 8 grid blocks high is roughly the height of a torque guy/ or t2 player..
so for a normal building I keep it about 16 grids high for a hallway.. and probably go up to 32 for a main room... due to jetting in t2..
I avoid scale because it too will move intersection points..
I try to keep it fairly straight forward.. : )
Torque Owner Tyler Frans