State of the Mac (or am I insane?)
by Sean Galie · in Torque Game Engine · 02/06/2003 (3:32 pm) · 3 replies
Okay, I'm about to bite off more than I can chew but maybe it'll jog all of our minds. I've finally gotten over all the getting started hijinx of learning Torque and am just starting to feel comfortable... and now I'm looking over at my Windows XP box and am determined not to use it for at least a month in work related to my project (plus a good buddy bet me that I couldn't) which for the moment is planned to be released as Mac and Linux Only (my single financial backer is interested in an Alternate Platform only game).
Most of the best third party tools are all Windows-based, from 3D Studio Max (and the related plugins for Torque) to most level editors for games. I'm starting to think we can change this for our use... Mac OS has two great 3D packages in Maya 4.5 and Lightwave 7.5.... both can keep pace on a professional level with much of what Max can do for Windows and both even have an edge that we'll all appreciate - Free Versions are available for learning and non-commercial use, and both can do an incredible amount within the free environment...
So... to my point - how hard would it be for a few of us to somehow make Maya Personal Learning Edition or Lightwave Discovery Edition torque-friendly?
As a follow-up, wouldn't we then be able to use the Maya (or Lightwave) scripts for other 3D games with adaptation for level editing and other interesting jobs for Torque?
I've rambled enough... but I think this is worth a shot and would solve some considerable development headaches for the Mac Torque community.
(As a devil's advocate follow-up - if we did this, we could also probably end up porting the Max Plugins if discreet ever follows through on all the rumors of Max coming to OS X.)
Most of the best third party tools are all Windows-based, from 3D Studio Max (and the related plugins for Torque) to most level editors for games. I'm starting to think we can change this for our use... Mac OS has two great 3D packages in Maya 4.5 and Lightwave 7.5.... both can keep pace on a professional level with much of what Max can do for Windows and both even have an edge that we'll all appreciate - Free Versions are available for learning and non-commercial use, and both can do an incredible amount within the free environment...
So... to my point - how hard would it be for a few of us to somehow make Maya Personal Learning Edition or Lightwave Discovery Edition torque-friendly?
As a follow-up, wouldn't we then be able to use the Maya (or Lightwave) scripts for other 3D games with adaptation for level editing and other interesting jobs for Torque?
I've rambled enough... but I think this is worth a shot and would solve some considerable development headaches for the Mac Torque community.
(As a devil's advocate follow-up - if we did this, we could also probably end up porting the Max Plugins if discreet ever follows through on all the rumors of Max coming to OS X.)
#2
Legally, it's against the license of these learning editions to create anything commercial.
On the technical side, the LW Discovery Edition is limited in terms of number of points/polygons that can be used. And Maya PLE is limited in terms of what can be exported, and the SDK isn't available for PLE.
Of course, there's nothing to stop you from using the commercial versions of either package on the Mac.
02/06/2003 (7:05 pm)
There are two problems to this - technical and legal.Legally, it's against the license of these learning editions to create anything commercial.
On the technical side, the LW Discovery Edition is limited in terms of number of points/polygons that can be used. And Maya PLE is limited in terms of what can be exported, and the SDK isn't available for PLE.
Of course, there's nothing to stop you from using the commercial versions of either package on the Mac.
#3
Wouldn't the study of these tools just to see if it's viable full under the learning side of "Personal Learning Edition", the other side to the coin being that I am genuinely trying to learn the program to see if I can shell out the hundreds (or thousands depending on the version) to bring a commercial project ot fruition... hmmm
To play devil's advocate to myself, a good friend (who is also a decent lawyer) has told me that this type of thing is a grey area - I'm not releasing anything commercial using these products - but if I want to then I have to shell out the money, I'm wondering in some sort of twilight between what the software vendor intended and seeing how far I can stretch that in my personal project (and let's admit it - anyone would love to turn their project commercially...)
Thanks for the info about Lightwave, I'm still exploring what I can and can't do in both packages and would've been blind to that for a while - this means I might spend a little extra time in Maya tonight learning the basics and sketching out ideas...
@David:
I've really looked through the forums the last few days and seen some people give you a load of crap because you've stepped to plate on mac work as an extra-curricular activity to whatever the daytime grind has you doing... if you have anything up your sleeve on the tools front - I can't wait to see, but I won't be breathing down your neck in the process like an ungrateful idiot.
Looking at the Lightwave plugin to see if that will balance out the limitations that the package may have... but as I said, I'll probably lean towards playing in Maya because I'll feel less limited. It may also be possible to see how Maya's scripting language can handle torque tasks, I'm contemplating the entry level package there because I can afford it before I can afford Lightwave.
Now to really cause trouble, I stumbled across MojoWorld today and found out that my Server G4 (it's no longer a 10.1 Server, I put 10.2.3) came with a promotional Bryce 5 CD, both are basically useless for this type of thing, but I might see how any type of useful tool can come out of either (maybe at least for mocking up terrain or mapping ideas?)... or it could just be that I'm really tired after working a double-shift... I give up.
02/06/2003 (8:52 pm)
@Simon:Wouldn't the study of these tools just to see if it's viable full under the learning side of "Personal Learning Edition", the other side to the coin being that I am genuinely trying to learn the program to see if I can shell out the hundreds (or thousands depending on the version) to bring a commercial project ot fruition... hmmm
To play devil's advocate to myself, a good friend (who is also a decent lawyer) has told me that this type of thing is a grey area - I'm not releasing anything commercial using these products - but if I want to then I have to shell out the money, I'm wondering in some sort of twilight between what the software vendor intended and seeing how far I can stretch that in my personal project (and let's admit it - anyone would love to turn their project commercially...)
Thanks for the info about Lightwave, I'm still exploring what I can and can't do in both packages and would've been blind to that for a while - this means I might spend a little extra time in Maya tonight learning the basics and sketching out ideas...
@David:
I've really looked through the forums the last few days and seen some people give you a load of crap because you've stepped to plate on mac work as an extra-curricular activity to whatever the daytime grind has you doing... if you have anything up your sleeve on the tools front - I can't wait to see, but I won't be breathing down your neck in the process like an ungrateful idiot.
Looking at the Lightwave plugin to see if that will balance out the limitations that the package may have... but as I said, I'll probably lean towards playing in Maya because I'll feel less limited. It may also be possible to see how Maya's scripting language can handle torque tasks, I'm contemplating the entry level package there because I can afford it before I can afford Lightwave.
Now to really cause trouble, I stumbled across MojoWorld today and found out that my Server G4 (it's no longer a 10.1 Server, I put 10.2.3) came with a promotional Bryce 5 CD, both are basically useless for this type of thing, but I might see how any type of useful tool can come out of either (maybe at least for mocking up terrain or mapping ideas?)... or it could just be that I'm really tired after working a double-shift... I give up.
Torque Owner David Chait
In theory, you might be able to use something like Lightwave to build levels, but it'd need a lot of help. Lots of 'tagging' of extra info on surfaces, etc.
I'm still working on some level-building alternatives, but nothing as yet.
d