Sim City in 3d possible?
by Rich Wilson · in Torque Game Engine · 02/04/2003 (7:10 pm) · 6 replies
I know that anything is technically possible in Torque, given enough imagination and determination, but I was curious to ask those who are more technically minded if something like Sim City, but 3d would be readily feasible in the Torque engine. This would basically include dynamic building growth, city blocks forming out of nowhere, terrain modification, street paving and traffic patterns. Any thoughts, ideas?
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#2
02/04/2003 (7:29 pm)
wow, that is very interesting. i always liked simulation games like sim city 2000 to 4. i especially liked the sims. man, that would be cool if torque would do that.
#3
02/04/2003 (7:54 pm)
Simcity 4 uses a 3d engine. My only concern would be if the engine could push enough polygons around to render a detailed city.
#4
However . . .
If every building in the city was rectangular, and assuming you constrained the camera more than in SimCity (ie, no perspective 'Region View' or similar distance view), and keep the visible distance at a good balance between distance and performance (just enough to not show the whole map at once is all), I could definitely see it working. The hardest thing would be trying to implement the game logic; making the port from 2D to 3D (or in SC4's case, a weird variety of half-3D into real 3D) is nothing compared to programming the incredibly complex systems that make up SimCity. Honestly, those are some of the few games where I just shake my head. Sim City, The Sims, any current MMO (although this is changing; EQ could probably be done by an Indy team actually, it's just the physical resources/bandwidth that are the problem), and the pro football games are among the select few games out there that could NOT, not even with the best cirsumstances and the smartest people in the happiest fairy tale be made by a small Indy team. Games like UT2k3, Thief, hell even Tribes could *potentially* be made by an insanely skilled Indy team, even though UT2k3 is pushing it with the sheer amount of content (and of course discount the engine development a tad, or assume they were building off of a preexisting engine, or using a peice of crap like Thief). But even the best, greatest games, the games I love the most (Thief, Tribes) *could* be made by indies.
SC4 -- no way. It's a juggernaught. Anyone that thinks that some Croteam-like-group could come out of nowhere and create something like SC4 is kidding themselves. It's like Lord of the Rings in a way -- it's a masterful product if you like that kind of thing (I do with Lotr, don't with SC4 as much), it's extremely well put-together and very, very well done, creates the perfect atmosphere etc. But it's just SO DAMN BIG. No indy filmmakers, not even a group of 50 dedicated FX gurus and the best undy directors and the best indy actors and the best indy composers could make something like LOTR. The acting might be good, the story might be good, the passion might be there, but it couldn't possibly do it justice on the scale that Jackson is right now.
That's why I cheer for stuff like ActionRPG. I love seeing mortals walk without fear among Titans. :) Go, Ritter, go.
02/04/2003 (8:41 pm)
True, it is 3d, but it's the non-perspective view that lets it render with that detail -- if you zoom in or out quickly, that's the frame rate you would get if it was rendering it in real-time. Instead it only draws changes from the last frame and just scrolls the preexisting image around vertical/horizontally. And even then, that's completely removing the cost of rendering buildings in 3d.However . . .
If every building in the city was rectangular, and assuming you constrained the camera more than in SimCity (ie, no perspective 'Region View' or similar distance view), and keep the visible distance at a good balance between distance and performance (just enough to not show the whole map at once is all), I could definitely see it working. The hardest thing would be trying to implement the game logic; making the port from 2D to 3D (or in SC4's case, a weird variety of half-3D into real 3D) is nothing compared to programming the incredibly complex systems that make up SimCity. Honestly, those are some of the few games where I just shake my head. Sim City, The Sims, any current MMO (although this is changing; EQ could probably be done by an Indy team actually, it's just the physical resources/bandwidth that are the problem), and the pro football games are among the select few games out there that could NOT, not even with the best cirsumstances and the smartest people in the happiest fairy tale be made by a small Indy team. Games like UT2k3, Thief, hell even Tribes could *potentially* be made by an insanely skilled Indy team, even though UT2k3 is pushing it with the sheer amount of content (and of course discount the engine development a tad, or assume they were building off of a preexisting engine, or using a peice of crap like Thief). But even the best, greatest games, the games I love the most (Thief, Tribes) *could* be made by indies.
SC4 -- no way. It's a juggernaught. Anyone that thinks that some Croteam-like-group could come out of nowhere and create something like SC4 is kidding themselves. It's like Lord of the Rings in a way -- it's a masterful product if you like that kind of thing (I do with Lotr, don't with SC4 as much), it's extremely well put-together and very, very well done, creates the perfect atmosphere etc. But it's just SO DAMN BIG. No indy filmmakers, not even a group of 50 dedicated FX gurus and the best undy directors and the best indy actors and the best indy composers could make something like LOTR. The acting might be good, the story might be good, the passion might be there, but it couldn't possibly do it justice on the scale that Jackson is right now.
That's why I cheer for stuff like ActionRPG. I love seeing mortals walk without fear among Titans. :) Go, Ritter, go.
#5
Then they just dumped it out and wrote another isometric game. I'm pretty sure they had a good reason. I don't know if there's an interview where they talk about them.
02/05/2003 (1:01 am)
Actually, SimCity 3000 was originally planned as a 3D game, including the ability to walk through the city and all that. You may still be able to find a few early screenshots.Then they just dumped it out and wrote another isometric game. I'm pretty sure they had a good reason. I don't know if there's an interview where they talk about them.
#6
The problem will not be the rendering of the scene in 3D, this will even be simpler and in some cases even faster than in 3D as it all will be rendered by hardware.
The problem is the collision detection for all the people walking around, all the cars driving and all the trains. Besides this, you need to find a way to detect if they are in front of a trafic light.
The map data for the 3D scenes are MUCH bigger than you would need in 2D.
So I thing you would need quite a fast machine to do the realtime simulation, or you need to work in a 2D template and use a system like Torque uses to convert a 2D heigth map to a 3D terrain, but then for your whole drawing engine.
02/05/2003 (1:21 am)
I am working on the concepts of a strategy game myself. This will be a transport simulation in the trend of simutrans.The problem will not be the rendering of the scene in 3D, this will even be simpler and in some cases even faster than in 3D as it all will be rendered by hardware.
The problem is the collision detection for all the people walking around, all the cars driving and all the trains. Besides this, you need to find a way to detect if they are in front of a trafic light.
The map data for the 3D scenes are MUCH bigger than you would need in 2D.
So I thing you would need quite a fast machine to do the realtime simulation, or you need to work in a 2D template and use a system like Torque uses to convert a 2D heigth map to a 3D terrain, but then for your whole drawing engine.
Torque Owner Jeremy Tilton