Blender action editing driving me up the wall...
by Daniel Buckmaster · in Artist Corner · 05/07/2009 (11:51 am) · 16 replies
Blender's action editor/NLA edior function seems to be the least intuitive thing I have ever encountered. It's probably just me.
I've made some action animations and I'm trying to lay them out in the NLA editor. However, one of my action strips has some blank keyframes at the start. When I activate the action in the action editor, I see that all the keyframes have been moved forward a few frames. Odd, I think, so I move all the keyframes back to start at frame 0.
Going back into the NLA editor, I see that the action strip for that action has moved to start at frame 0. So I move it back to where it's supposed to be, a few frames to the right, and try again. The blank space is still there at the start of the animation.
I go *back* to the action editor, and lo and behold, the keyframes have all skipped to the right again.
What's going on here? I don't have this problem with any other actions.
I've made some action animations and I'm trying to lay them out in the NLA editor. However, one of my action strips has some blank keyframes at the start. When I activate the action in the action editor, I see that all the keyframes have been moved forward a few frames. Odd, I think, so I move all the keyframes back to start at frame 0.
Going back into the NLA editor, I see that the action strip for that action has moved to start at frame 0. So I move it back to where it's supposed to be, a few frames to the right, and try again. The blank space is still there at the start of the animation.
I go *back* to the action editor, and lo and behold, the keyframes have all skipped to the right again.
What's going on here? I don't have this problem with any other actions.
About the author
Studying mechatronic engineering and computer science at the University of Sydney. Game development is probably my most time-consuming hobby!
#2
Are you using the most recent exporter? I thought the only option was to use NLA strips.
05/08/2009 (7:33 am)
What do you mean by locking them? If you mean keyframes (the menu you get when you hit i in posemode), I have all bones keyframed on the first frame of the animation, and for each frame of the animation.Are you using the most recent exporter? I thought the only option was to use NLA strips.
#3
I took one look at 2.48's new animation system and was instantly baffled, and I haven't had time to read up about it in the manual. So I've regressed to the previous version of both Blender and exporter because I know what I'm doing there.
05/08/2009 (9:25 am)
I'm not using the new exporter for animation exports. I'm using "0.964 exporter" on "Blender 2.44" (not 2.48).I took one look at 2.48's new animation system and was instantly baffled, and I haven't had time to read up about it in the manual. So I've regressed to the previous version of both Blender and exporter because I know what I'm doing there.
#4
Okay, I think I've found my workaround - the new exporter has the option to create sequences from actions, rather than relying on NLA strips. I reckon that's a better method all-round, I'm going to see if I can make that the default.
05/09/2009 (9:34 am)
Hmm. I might try a retro version of the exporter. But I do like the new .97 way of setting up the shape for export, aside from this NLA thing.Okay, I think I've found my workaround - the new exporter has the option to create sequences from actions, rather than relying on NLA strips. I reckon that's a better method all-round, I'm going to see if I can make that the default.
#5
05/22/2009 (7:22 am)
I've been using blender and blender only for years now. I won't defend it's honor like a fanboy or anything, but if you want to send me your .blend file i might be able to sort that out.
#6
05/22/2009 (12:10 pm)
Sorry, I've overwritten it while using my new method of circumventing the problem. But would you have time to give me a quick run-down of what the heck is the relationship between actions, the NLA timeline, and the normal timeline? :P
#7
-Actions are component animations associated with an individual object or armature.
-NLA editor is a mixing board for blending these component animations.
-Timeline is the the timeline for the entire scene
For character animation in torque you can pretty well ignore the timeline. You can still use actions as a filing system for your animation, but the new exporter uses some features of the NLA editor for setting state begin and end flags
05/22/2009 (1:53 pm)
Sure-Actions are component animations associated with an individual object or armature.
-NLA editor is a mixing board for blending these component animations.
-Timeline is the the timeline for the entire scene
For character animation in torque you can pretty well ignore the timeline. You can still use actions as a filing system for your animation, but the new exporter uses some features of the NLA editor for setting state begin and end flags
#8
Is the timeline in the action editor separate from the real timeline? It seems that these two are moved in tandem, not separately (dragging the cursor in the action editor affects the frame number in the real timeline).
05/22/2009 (3:35 pm)
Okay, so why, when I move an action strip on the NLA editor, would the keyframes in the action shift? It seems that the two are connected at some level I don't understand.Is the timeline in the action editor separate from the real timeline? It seems that these two are moved in tandem, not separately (dragging the cursor in the action editor affects the frame number in the real timeline).
#9
If you make a copy of an action in the NLA editor, with the action editor open, and slide it down the timeline a bit you'll notice that it moves in the action editor, but if you select the original, the keys move back to the original positions on the action editor as well.
If you then edit the keys of the action in the action editor, you will see that it affects all copies of the action in the NLA editor relative to their respective starting times.
05/26/2009 (9:01 am)
Time in the editors is global and relative. . .If you make a copy of an action in the NLA editor, with the action editor open, and slide it down the timeline a bit you'll notice that it moves in the action editor, but if you select the original, the keys move back to the original positions on the action editor as well.
If you then edit the keys of the action in the action editor, you will see that it affects all copies of the action in the NLA editor relative to their respective starting times.
#10
Thanks for the help, by the way! :)
05/26/2009 (2:03 pm)
Okay, so how do I avoid this link between the action in the action editor and the action in the NLA timeline? It's worked for some actions, and I don't understand why it does work for those and not for others. :P From your explanation it seems that I can create action strips exactly where I need them, and then not move them at all? But I could move some other strips freely without it affecting the action editor keyframes.Thanks for the help, by the way! :)
#11
05/26/2009 (2:38 pm)
Yep. Pin the action timeline. you'll see an icon for it right next to the action selection dropdown.
#12
EDIT: The depth of my lack of understanding has been releaved, going back into Blender and trying to add some stuff to the timeline. Now all my actions are shifting around in keyframes, and when I've got the action editor locked, it does crazy things when I try to edit actions or create new ones.
EDIT AGAIN: Okay, I think I've gotten my head around using NLA strips, to a degree. I still don't like it, though :P
05/27/2009 (1:25 am)
Okay, that seems to work for me, thanks! Still don't understand it, but as long as it works ;).EDIT: The depth of my lack of understanding has been releaved, going back into Blender and trying to add some stuff to the timeline. Now all my actions are shifting around in keyframes, and when I've got the action editor locked, it does crazy things when I try to edit actions or create new ones.
EDIT AGAIN: Okay, I think I've gotten my head around using NLA strips, to a degree. I still don't like it, though :P
#13
05/27/2009 (6:35 am)
Do we have success on the new Blender then? I still haven't got round to looking at it.
#14
05/27/2009 (8:53 am)
I've been using the 0.97 exporter with Blender 4.48, and it works great.
#15
05/29/2009 (1:54 pm)
Yep, success for me. I do like how the new exporter works, but I actually don't think I'm on the latest version of Blender. Don, do you mean 2.48? ;P I'll give the latest Blender a go when I get my dev computer back.
#16
06/02/2009 (7:22 am)
I mean 9.97643! Oh yeah, 2.48. I was looking at version numbers on files all day when i wrote that. 
Associate Steve Acaster
[YorkshireRifles.com]
If you have locked the selected bones with LocRot (Pose Mode -> right click bone -> move it -> i ->LocRot), and it's still happening, try locking some/any bone to frame zero - some bone that might not matter ... like "base" (if you call you first bone base).
I don't actually use the NLA editor, I do everything through the Actions editor below. Plus I'm using 2.44 for animations and not the new version (using that for statics).