Request: Remove the "Select Arrow" Mode

#1 I agree that seems clumsy.

Im very very very much missing the Alt and Ctrl-Alt hot keys behavior from TGE and TGEA. I dont like the edit 'MODES' at all, that is 3 clicks to do the same thing as one key tap and release before. Not at all a improvement, and i HATE it (only thing i dont like so far)!

#2 Well i'll disagree there somewhat... i do like 1, 2, 3 tied to the switch between move, rotate, and scale.

What i don't like is this seemingly useless "Select Arrow" mode.

#3 But what if you were selecting specific multiple objects in your scene? Sometimes you simply dont want the transform tooltips approaching (or if you are used to a 3D application, don't want to accidentally apply a transform while trying to select).

Perhaps the 4 key could be selection and leave 1, 2 and 3 for move, rotate and scale like Tom suggests?

#4 Keep the 1/2/3 keys, an option to return it to the 'old' method would be nice, or just have them coexist together.

Here is a case example. Place a new DTS, click for select move mode, move DTS, click for rotate mode, rotate, click for move mode, move once more, click for rotate mode, final rotation, click for move mode, final move. This new system have the design pressing 3 different keys/buttons for the edit modes.

OLD way:
Place a new DTS, move DTS, hold-key rotate mode, rotate, release-key move mode, move once more, hold-key rotate mode, final rotation, release-key, final move. This old way have the designer pressing ONE key to switch modes, just a pinky finger twitch to do the same amount of work.

It very frustrating to fine tune object placement, and its counter intuitive to the way all my other art programs work.

#5 @Logan - Well for me personally i've yet to ever accidentally move something when trying to select... has anyone else? I'm just trying to get the justification for one more mode that we have to maintain (fix bugs, do QA, do docs, etc).

@Caylo - It's unfair trying to compare clicking on the icon against the old Alt/Alt+Ctrl shortcuts. If you compare it to using the 1/2/3 keyboard keys i think most will find it just as comfortable if not better in that you don't have to hold a key during an operation.

#6 The problem is, it take ONE press to enter new mode, and ONE press to exit new mode. That is 2x the work it use to be. Lots of extra fussing about...
I can see the benefits of the new system, but NONE of my other programs work anything like that, so for me its very slow and cumbersome.
It should not be much work to return the old style. But if not, im sure i will be capable of editing it in myself...

EDIT: I have been plotting forth with the new style, putting off judgment expecting to 'learn' to like it. Its just to annoying when i switch from MAX to TorqueEditor and need to switch to a full different UI mode of thinking. If all i was using is TorqueEditor it would not be an issue at all.

#7 You make it sound like switching modes is hard... i usually move the object around with the fingers of my left hand on the 1,2,3 keys. Its fairly simple.

I think the idea came from either the Crysis editor or 3dsmax or something.

#8 My left hand is controlling the camera, NOT the edit modes, less the Thumb tapping ALT, and every now and then Pinky-Thumb for scale.

But if no one else share my opinion then its a mute point, and i will simply edit the code to fit my needs(EDIT: if i can)...

#9 @Caylo
The setup we have now is exactly how it works in 3dsmax and the crysis editor, this is what it was modeled after.

There might be an extra keypress required in your example scenario, but in others there are less, for example you want to rotate 10 different objects one after another. Also I consider having to press "and hold" a key more effort than having to press "and not need to hold" one more key. But that's just how I feel.

#10 By the way just took another look at 3dsmax and the crysis editor.

I would suggest that if we are to keep the selection mode it is moved to the 4 key. This is how it is mapped in the crysis editor.

To make the selected object more obvious in selection mode I suggest we render the transform gizmo in object space without the selectable tips or planar handles. This is how it works in 3dsmax.

#11 Im not saying drop the new system, just asking if the old one could be returned without much hassle? And if not, im very much open to making my own UI modifications.

EDIT: Perhaps a new 'mode' should be added for the SHIFT-DRAG duplication behavior; just for consistency of UI operation?

#12 In theory... i think it would be possible to allow Alt and Alt+Ctrl to work as well when in move mode. But i do worry that it will further complicate the code.

#13 I cant even find the location of this behavior in the code, so i guess its not an easy to customize feature.

#14 The number keys are bound via the globalactionmap to set the GlobalGizmoProfile.mode, you could try experimenting with that if you are interested.

#15 I found at tools\missionEditor\scripts\editor.bind.ed.cs around line60 and hacked in:

EditorMap.bindCmd( keyboard, "alt", "alttoggle();", "" );
function alttoggle(%val)
{
   if(%val)   { EWorldEditorRotateModeBtn.performClick(); }
   else{ EWorldEditorMoveModeBtn.performClick(); }
    
   echo("ALT toggle");
}

but it did not work. I got time with the family for the next 3 hours so will return with news sometime after that.

#16

Quote:I got time with the family for the next 3 hours

Sounds like a hardcore programmer...
With good behavior maybe you will get a reduced sentence. lol

#17 @Gerry "Hermetic" Smith: I have my sister and her husband and their two children, my grandmother and my little brother all living in my house (I actually live in the guest house, when at this property). Normally 5:30pm till 8pm is considered 'family' time. But I excused myself early tonight.

EditorMap.bind( keyboard, "q", alttoggle );
function alttoggle(%val)
{
   if(%val) 
     { 
        echo("RotateMode");
        EWorldEditorRotateModeBtn.performClick(); 
        }
   else
   {
      echo("MoveMode");
       EWorldEditorMoveModeBtn.performClick(); 
       }
   }

The above will work, but not using alt. Can not the alt be used for .bind?

#18 Its possible that ALT is not a bindable key on its own... which is sort of silly... not sure why that restriction is in place.

#19

Quote:Can not the alt be used for .bind?

It should, but in combination with another I believe, I know I've used it in a few places in the FPS kit: Alt-A: throws current weapon's ammo, and Alt-W throws current weapon. Though it causes a windows system sound -- ding! -- when you do so if you're not fullscreen

#20 Shucks.

Well,

EditorMap.bindCmd( keyboard, "alt", "EWorldEditorRotateModeBtn.performClick();", "EWorldEditorMoveModeBtn.performClick();" );

would be the perfect solution for me on this issue, if alt was bindable. I have not persuaded this into the c'code yet.