Including mature and controversial content into an mmorpg
by Kyrah Abattoir · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 05/03/2009 (12:37 pm) · 12 replies
I am wondering how could the mmorpg game style be mixed with content that cater to a more mature crowd, Age of conan already surfed somewhat on the razor lane with nudity and brutal violence, however i'm wondering how to include more elements without turning the game into a "sex game".
As in, keeping the game a world of multiplayer action and adventure but while adding a clearly adult edge, without it taking over the whole point of the game.
From personal experience, erotism in a video game is MUCH harder to implement than violence (wich is already an accepted concept no matter it's level.)
Sociolotron is the only example i see that pushed it further than any other games, unfortunately, in my opinion it fell in the "sex game".
As for controversial content, very few games today allow things like canibalism for instance, the last one i recal was Ultima Online wich allowed you to ultimately "profanate" another player's corpse by turning it into... meat and keep parts of it as a trophy.
Altho it was more symbolic than graphic it was one of those "dark" subjects modern mmorpgs seems to be afraid to touch.
I worked now 4 years producing 3D content and scripted assets for SecondLife that tend to be on the erotic/fetish side of things, i'm trying to find a believeable game concept that allow me to add my own stone to the history of online game worlds.
As in, keeping the game a world of multiplayer action and adventure but while adding a clearly adult edge, without it taking over the whole point of the game.
From personal experience, erotism in a video game is MUCH harder to implement than violence (wich is already an accepted concept no matter it's level.)
Sociolotron is the only example i see that pushed it further than any other games, unfortunately, in my opinion it fell in the "sex game".
As for controversial content, very few games today allow things like canibalism for instance, the last one i recal was Ultima Online wich allowed you to ultimately "profanate" another player's corpse by turning it into... meat and keep parts of it as a trophy.
Altho it was more symbolic than graphic it was one of those "dark" subjects modern mmorpgs seems to be afraid to touch.
I worked now 4 years producing 3D content and scripted assets for SecondLife that tend to be on the erotic/fetish side of things, i'm trying to find a believeable game concept that allow me to add my own stone to the history of online game worlds.
About the author
3D artist, programmer, game designer, jack of all trades, master of none.
#2
Fallout 3 was actually a setback in the term of freedom of action and a good amount of players complained about it (you can also find a lot of player made "fixes" to this). The two previous games offered numerous purely "free" roleplaying elements to forge further your character's persona, like "hints" of sexual encounters, participating to slave hunts (I know there is still something in fallout 3 but it's nowhere near what fallout 2 offered), i remember you could also scavenge graveyards or something like this.
As for what i feel sociolotron got too far, i'm not exactly sure if it's allowed by this forum guideline to be too descriptive, but lets say instead of a roleplay game with sex related elements, it became in my opinion a sex game with roleplay related elements.
05/03/2009 (1:47 pm)
Well this was only one part of my "opening post", there is also the issue of how far you can go into the erotic side of things while keeping your game, NOT focused on it, in term of cooking, to me it's about as hard as making a saus that will compliment and enhance the taste of a good steak without overpowering it.Fallout 3 was actually a setback in the term of freedom of action and a good amount of players complained about it (you can also find a lot of player made "fixes" to this). The two previous games offered numerous purely "free" roleplaying elements to forge further your character's persona, like "hints" of sexual encounters, participating to slave hunts (I know there is still something in fallout 3 but it's nowhere near what fallout 2 offered), i remember you could also scavenge graveyards or something like this.
As for what i feel sociolotron got too far, i'm not exactly sure if it's allowed by this forum guideline to be too descriptive, but lets say instead of a roleplay game with sex related elements, it became in my opinion a sex game with roleplay related elements.
#3
Oh, and the forum guidelines here do limit how graphic you can get so post on the safe side, k?
As a side note, I've heard from various people that the two industries that are "ripe for the picking" for game technology are serious games (simulation and training) and adult entertainment. The simulation industry is finally catching on, but there is still too much red tape and "Old Guard" running things.
05/03/2009 (2:03 pm)
@Kyrah - I'll agree with you on the Fallout 3 issue. Despite the fact that there has always been opposition to violent games and mature content, a lot has changed since the first two games were released. There is far too much pressure on developers and publishers from outside influence, particularly watchdog groups, the Big 3, and politicians trying to lobby cheap support.Oh, and the forum guidelines here do limit how graphic you can get so post on the safe side, k?
As a side note, I've heard from various people that the two industries that are "ripe for the picking" for game technology are serious games (simulation and training) and adult entertainment. The simulation industry is finally catching on, but there is still too much red tape and "Old Guard" running things.
#4
Indies are the new cannon fodder of video game industry, i think if anybody can twist the barrier it's us :D
05/03/2009 (2:54 pm)
Yeah i will stay on the safe side, thanks for the advice ^_^Indies are the new cannon fodder of video game industry, i think if anybody can twist the barrier it's us :D
#5
As for Age of Conan, it surfed the razor's edge only because it tried to bring profanity and nudity into the game as a marketing feature. I myself did not play AoC (it crashed my laptop), but from what I heard the NPCs were cursing gratuitously. Not that I'm against profanity, but anything adult needs to be added carefully, and not just because of politics, but also because of your customers. They know when the context is correct for what they see and hear, and when that is screwed up, it breaks your suspension of disbelief.
As an example, I just saw two movies at the Tribeca Film Festival today. The first had plenty of cursing, and was hilarious. The second film... Well, me and my girl walked out. It's not the profanity, or the midgets vs mascots theme, or the nudity. It was the fact that none of it was done with the same level of taste that you would find in a Family Guy episode. The features of the movie were obviously done as a simple gimmick (which worked, because it made the #3 spot), and it turned me off to it.
So that razor's edge is really only so thin because of the taste (or lack thereof) of the developer. If the context exists, and exists strongly, then there should be a way to implement the type of gameplay you are thinking of. If it doesn't exist, or if it is thin, then you'll have issues.
05/03/2009 (7:12 pm)
@Kyrah: In all things, you should ask yourself what it brings to the table. If you want to do things like cannibalism or adult themes, you should know what you are trying to accomplish for the end-user's game experience.As for Age of Conan, it surfed the razor's edge only because it tried to bring profanity and nudity into the game as a marketing feature. I myself did not play AoC (it crashed my laptop), but from what I heard the NPCs were cursing gratuitously. Not that I'm against profanity, but anything adult needs to be added carefully, and not just because of politics, but also because of your customers. They know when the context is correct for what they see and hear, and when that is screwed up, it breaks your suspension of disbelief.
As an example, I just saw two movies at the Tribeca Film Festival today. The first had plenty of cursing, and was hilarious. The second film... Well, me and my girl walked out. It's not the profanity, or the midgets vs mascots theme, or the nudity. It was the fact that none of it was done with the same level of taste that you would find in a Family Guy episode. The features of the movie were obviously done as a simple gimmick (which worked, because it made the #3 spot), and it turned me off to it.
So that razor's edge is really only so thin because of the taste (or lack thereof) of the developer. If the context exists, and exists strongly, then there should be a way to implement the type of gameplay you are thinking of. If it doesn't exist, or if it is thin, then you'll have issues.
#6
That said, sometimes your game might necessitate you use some adult-targeted elements. For example, I wouldn't have expected that The Lost and Damned be without profanity, because face it, you're part of a biker gang :P. No offense to bikers out there ;)
Basically, I agree with Ted :P
05/04/2009 (10:08 am)
I think it's important to distinguish here between 'mature' games and 'adult' games, because they're not the same thing. If you're adding explicit content just to say you can, and to pretend that video games are at a point where it's cool and normal to do that, well, it probably means that games aren't at that level. But if you're actually dealing with the content you're using in a 'mature' way (which is difficult enough to define :P) then it does constitute something more than just being gratuitous.That said, sometimes your game might necessitate you use some adult-targeted elements. For example, I wouldn't have expected that The Lost and Damned be without profanity, because face it, you're part of a biker gang :P. No offense to bikers out there ;)
Basically, I agree with Ted :P
#7
.. actually, that would totally derail this thread. i posted a blog about it instead.
05/04/2009 (10:34 am)
just a quick note on The Lost and the Damned... actually, that would totally derail this thread. i posted a blog about it instead.
#8
One of the games I've been designing for a little while is a generational RPG where each generation can only gain so much in skills and relationships and the game must be furthered by the next generation. If the next generation is indirect, less skills are passed on than they are to children of the current character.
I've pondered the possibility of fathering (not likely as much an issue with female characters...) a child be partly based on building a relationship with a woman such that she wants to be the mother of the character's child (kind of like marriage in the Sims). In this case enslavement/rape might be an option towards producing a child without going through the relationship phase. Such an act would have severe consequences for relationships (and relationships would be a major point of the game) but the question is this crossing a moral line that should not be crossed for game content?
Owing to the fact that this content makes me a tad uncomfortable means I probably wont implement it but the question still exists...
05/04/2009 (10:48 am)
I've been pondering some of the same questions as far as what point does mature content stop adding to the game and ends up bringing the game down. One of the games I've been designing for a little while is a generational RPG where each generation can only gain so much in skills and relationships and the game must be furthered by the next generation. If the next generation is indirect, less skills are passed on than they are to children of the current character.
I've pondered the possibility of fathering (not likely as much an issue with female characters...) a child be partly based on building a relationship with a woman such that she wants to be the mother of the character's child (kind of like marriage in the Sims). In this case enslavement/rape might be an option towards producing a child without going through the relationship phase. Such an act would have severe consequences for relationships (and relationships would be a major point of the game) but the question is this crossing a moral line that should not be crossed for game content?
Owing to the fact that this content makes me a tad uncomfortable means I probably wont implement it but the question still exists...
#9
It's a heavy subject, but one that was discussed at IMGDC in a roundtable led by Richard Bartle titled "Drawing the Line". It dealt with more than just that subject, but it did come up in the form of the game that was published in Japan around the end of the year. Obviously, it didn't have any fans in the room, but it still sparked some debate about legalities, fetishes, roleplay, and just how far you go before you really are doing the equivalent of "screaming fire in a crowded movie theater".
My own feelings on this is that if you're uncomfortable using it, then go with your gut feelings. That goes with most game design in general, but controversial subjects especially.
Very true. I think where many games go wrong is crossing the line from the adult themes needed to represent the context of the game into putting the themes in as a way to attract gamers.
That probably sums up the common sense approach to this issue. Sometimes, the mature way to deal with the content is not to use it, or only use it in certain ways.
05/04/2009 (11:31 am)
Quote:Owing to the fact that this content makes me a tad uncomfortable means I probably wont implement it but the question still exists...
It's a heavy subject, but one that was discussed at IMGDC in a roundtable led by Richard Bartle titled "Drawing the Line". It dealt with more than just that subject, but it did come up in the form of the game that was published in Japan around the end of the year. Obviously, it didn't have any fans in the room, but it still sparked some debate about legalities, fetishes, roleplay, and just how far you go before you really are doing the equivalent of "screaming fire in a crowded movie theater".
My own feelings on this is that if you're uncomfortable using it, then go with your gut feelings. That goes with most game design in general, but controversial subjects especially.
Quote:sometimes your game might necessitate you use some adult-targeted elements
Very true. I think where many games go wrong is crossing the line from the adult themes needed to represent the context of the game into putting the themes in as a way to attract gamers.
Quote:But if you're actually dealing with the content you're using in a 'mature' way (which is difficult enough to define :P) then it does constitute something more than just being gratuitous.
That probably sums up the common sense approach to this issue. Sometimes, the mature way to deal with the content is not to use it, or only use it in certain ways.
#10
05/04/2009 (11:33 am)
I absolutely love the concept of a generational RPG. Your problem is a difficult one in terms of knowing where the 'line' is. I would say it's a question of how the player 'wins' at the game. If by taking an immoral path, you can win more quickly, or win more, or win something else, then I would call it a valid inclusion. Because you're not just including adult content that has no bearing on the rest of the game. If I, as a player, create an evil patriarchical regime and end up 'winning', it gives me an interesting opportunity to reflect on my success... yes, I achieved this thing I couldn't have otherwise, but I did it at the cost of my values and morals. 
#11
The game design should focus on the action / adventure aspects of the game. Create avatars with intimate emotes and animations, facilitate ways for players to interact: dating, marriage, cheating, etc, and provide places for social activities to occur such as bars / pubs, restaurants, libraries, etc.
Make sure that the activities / emotes / animations / chat take place only among consenting adults, keep the animations and emotes mostly PG-13 and dancing along the edge of R without being too gratuitous about it.
The primary purpose of the game should not be about the mature content... let the mature content emerge from the players.
05/04/2009 (11:55 am)
Mature players' imagination and emergent behavior is your key to success. You should use that to your advantage.The game design should focus on the action / adventure aspects of the game. Create avatars with intimate emotes and animations, facilitate ways for players to interact: dating, marriage, cheating, etc, and provide places for social activities to occur such as bars / pubs, restaurants, libraries, etc.
Make sure that the activities / emotes / animations / chat take place only among consenting adults, keep the animations and emotes mostly PG-13 and dancing along the edge of R without being too gratuitous about it.
The primary purpose of the game should not be about the mature content... let the mature content emerge from the players.
#12
For example, would making a few specific aparels that are not purely gameplay related but are simply ... sexy and/or bizarre (like the 'ballgag' you could get in Fallout2, tho it hadn't any purpose excepted making you wonder what the hell you just did with this mutant) a lot of asian rpgs/mmorpgs have "collectible" items like Ragnarok Online wich has a LOAD of different hats, and headgears.
I was also thinking about objects that can potentially restrict a player's actions (in a VERY limited context of course) like handcuffs, those aren't really controversial in themselve and could have legitimate gameplay use.
For example: in a player versus player raid one group could use this to hold prisoner a player while they question him on the location of his gang's hideout.
05/05/2009 (3:13 pm)
Spot on Tony, my idea is to give as much freedom of action to the players, and i want to give them the tools to acomplish (mostly) whatever they want, that's the difficult bit, it's staying on the "enabling" rather than the "directing" one.For example, would making a few specific aparels that are not purely gameplay related but are simply ... sexy and/or bizarre (like the 'ballgag' you could get in Fallout2, tho it hadn't any purpose excepted making you wonder what the hell you just did with this mutant) a lot of asian rpgs/mmorpgs have "collectible" items like Ragnarok Online wich has a LOAD of different hats, and headgears.
I was also thinking about objects that can potentially restrict a player's actions (in a VERY limited context of course) like handcuffs, those aren't really controversial in themselve and could have legitimate gameplay use.
For example: in a player versus player raid one group could use this to hold prisoner a player while they question him on the location of his gang's hideout.
Employee Michael Perry
ZombieShortbus
Conan did get some press about being controversial, but it was actually pretty tame compared to interactive adult games.
As far as cannibalism goes, Fallout 3 has a perk that allowed you to feast on a dead body to gain health. However, the repercussions were extremely negative. I think it was a replacement for the ability to slay children in the first two games, in terms of unforgivable crimes that reduced your karma to next to nothing.
I know it is not an MMORPG, but still, the subject was touched on by a few recent games.