How complete is V12

#1 As I understand it, the V12 is the T2 minus the intellectual property (ie artwork, scripts). You will only need a compiler if you are planning to change some parts of the engine itself. Otherwise, scripting plays a large part in it. Pretty amazing what a person can do just by writing a different script(and adding art, of course)--new weapons, teleporters, etc.

If you have T2, get online and go to the "forums" section--several good Q&A's there.

#2 Wow so it is just like scripting for Tribes 2! NEAT! Well I got to brush up on my modding and scripting and I am going to get this V12 engine. OOOO no hassle with those dumb compilers god I hate those, and not to mention getting libraries and other things to work. Few!

#3 If all your going to do is mod the V12, then you don't need to purchase the V12 engine. We'll be releasing the v12 "demo" executable for free, along with all the tools, shortly after we release the V12 source.

#4 so Tim, what's the difference between the DEMO and the full vertion? I mean, all you are doing with this is modifieing it, one way or another. So why would there be a DEMO????

#5 The demo is just an executable, some scripts, and some sample art assets. Modding (editing scripts, adding new art) the demo will allow a pretty wide range of games to be created but it will not give you the full flexibility that being able to change the source code for the engine would. For example, creating a space sim with the demo would be close to impossible. However, if you are doing a first person shooter with structures and terrains then it would be a fairly simple mod.

#6 ok, so now I am wondering, what would happen if you compile the code without touching it? I mean, just open the files and compile, would it even run?

#7 Yes =) There are some setup steps you will have to go through before you can compile it (please read the docs first!) but once you finish that, you hit Compile, it does its thing, and then you can just hit Run and start playing the demo (not much to do in it right now 'cept jump off buildings =). The sample scripts, art assets, and missions will be included on the cd or in the download and when you compile the executable will be copied into the appropiate dir so that you can run it.

#8 Seems to me that you would just end up with the same functionality as in the demo.

#9 The difference is that you don't get the source code to the v12 with the demo. If you are just doing a mod (a little more flexible than doing a Tribes 2 mod but not much more at this point) then you don't need the source code and you can be perfectly happy with the free demo.

However, if you are doing something outside of the scope of the v12 engine (like a space sim or a MMORPG) then you are going to have to modify the source code to the engine to allow you to make your game. You will not be able to just create a mod of the demo and will need to buy the full source of the v12.

Yes, a vanilla (untouched) compile of the v12 will be basically the same as the demo, you just won't have access to any of the source code.

#10 I dunno, I think the DEMO is a bad idea, but then again, I don't own garage games ;)

and the little executable sounds cool, kinda like the first task in the matrix

#11 Releasing the demo and allowing it to be modable is the same concept as allowing Quake, Quake II, Quake III, Half-Life, Unreal, UT, Tribes 1, and Tribes 2 to be modable...

#12 Speaking as someone who wrote Scripts and MOD's for Tribes and Tribes 2..

If you just plan on relying on the Demo for your engine don't be surprised when you have to scale back your MOD due to limitations you didn't expect.

Currently Map Makers for Tribes 2 are exploring the versitility of the mapping engine and some are finding things that Tribes had are gone from Tribes 2 and they are missed.

Being able to have the source code and add the feature you want instead of dropping it or figuring out a work-around.... that's the real power of the v12 engine.

#13 but when you mod q3, you have to own q3. This DEMO will be completely free of charge. And why use the DEMO, if you have tribes 2 to mod for...

I dunno, in my eyes, I see making a DEMO as a waste of time. But like I said before, I don't own garagegames, so I don't get to decide ;D

#14 I am curious about the space sim comment. Is it limited as the player can only rotate around a single axii?

#15 Well if your in a vehical your not limitted to one axel. I dont think a space sim would be that hard to make. (Except for the fact that vehics cant go in buildings) All you need to do is remove the ground add some stars and bingo. :)

#16 nobody notices my little play on words but what can ya do:)

#17 The demo is already being built as an example program for those who buy the v12 to get started with so it isn't costing GG any extra time or trouble to simply zip up the executable and the data and release it to the public. In fact, it will be a big benefit to the independent developers and will create good PR for GG.

id Software certainly isn't making their money off of people buying Quake III to just create mods with it.

One of the goals of the v12 is to make it more easily moddable than Tribes 2. Initially, there probably won't be any advantages to modding the demo over modding Tribes 2 but that will change with a little time. Also, the Tribes 2 engine is going to quickly diverge from the v12 engine in features and capabilities. The Tribes 2 engine is pretty much locked in but the v12 will be an actively growing engine with hundreds of developers working to improve it.

The reason I mentioned a space sim is because there aren't currenlty any space physics for the vehicles built into the engine and gravity is always on.

#18 so matt, if you begin to build something on the DEMO, can you later add it to the full vertion? if you can do that, and the DEMO is released first, then that would be great :D

#19 Having had some experience modding with Q3 I can tell you it's a major benefit to be able to alter the source. Even if you didn't touch the original source it's way easier just to find what is doing what if you can see were specific calls are being made. For example when you select something off of a pop up menu you might be limited to what characters the menu can use. So you'll have no idea what the problem is when the menu pops up and says "SLCT YOUR TAM". What the??? The engine doesn't draw an 'E'??!! Then you look through the source and see that an abbreviation format has been implemented...so that's what that number in the call does (ie. call drawMenu(message, 1)). You probably would never have figured out what it was doing without the source.

As for the demo, I personnally have never played tribes 2 or played with the scripting so it would be very beneficial for me to be able to sample the engine without having to buy Tribes 2.

#20 Yes, the scripts and art assets you create for use with the demo will work fine with the "full" version.