Directx 9

#1 There's no point really. DirectX9 doesn't offer any built in benefits over DirectX8. It's primary benefits are the managed code and superior shader support (HLSL etc.). The first is of no use to Torque and the second would be very hard to leverage cross platform (since Torque is esscentially OpenGL with a DirectX wrapper).

So in my opinion I doubt we'll see an upgrade unless someone is going all out on shader support on windows only...

#2 I was informed that there were no in-house plans to upgrade to DirextX 9.0.

However ... a port to DirectX 9 is being completed, specifically to provide HLSL shader support. I would think this is a highly desirable feature for those programming for Win32 who either don't care about cross platform support (I don't), or don't mind the additional labor of maintaining cross platform support.

As Gareth mentioned, Torque only supports Direct3D through an OpenGL wrapper; Torque is essentially built around OpenGL. There will either be some
sort of hook exposed to gain access to the underlying IDirect3DDevice9 interface when the Direct3D driver is selected, or additional "opengl2d3d" functions for loading effects files and setting effect parameters when the Direct3D driver is selected. Maintaining cross platform really wouldn't be a big deal if the latter approach is used.

Now I'm curious ... is DirectX 9 HLSL support a generally desirable feature for the GarageGames community, or only a few DirectX geeks who also like Torque? Let me know what you think ... it can certainly be submitted for the licensable verson of Torque in one form or another if enough people care about it.

#3 "no in-house plans" meaning the GarageGames guys had no current plans to upgrade Torque's DirectX support.

"port to DirectX 9 is being completed" meaning completed by third party ...

#4 so I suppose the real question is, are these third party people that are moving torque over to dx9, going to provide this heavy modification to the rest of the community?

I dont know if you guys have spent any time really diving into the torque graphics engine but the crazy way its pokes into the indexes into the
vertex buffers is really scary. Something not supported in dx8 or 9 but is ok apparently in opengl. Its no small task to completely replace this graphics engine and upgrade it to dx9. Probably why it hasnt been considered but the GG guys in the past.

Suffice is to say I think a change(like going to dx9) would really increase the value of the engine for all of us. It would be nice to not have every GG group have to make this kind of change(which changes like this are just one example where several groups are duplicating work).

Its doesnt seem like much of this stuff is making it back into the baseline or even being made available at all for that matter.

#5 I think am apporach to the codebase of TGE like Linux would be in order. GG should map out a set of ojectives for the engine to ensure maximum usefulness and saleability of the TGE.

Depending on random improvements from the geek comminity is not the way to get there IMOP.

My suggestions:

1. Every function, object, and configuration file for TGE should be listed, and available either in HTML online, or downloadable as PDF/PS/TXT/HTML.

Programmers should be able research every bit of funtionality the engine offers. Cool game mods are fun, but for serious programming I need to know how the doggone thing works.

See JBoss for how this done right. [ http://www.jboss.org ]

2. A bug tracking system should be added to the site. There are a number of Open Source solutions that could be implemented. (Bugzilla? perhaps)

3. More emhpasis should be place on TGE in server mode. As a potential MMORPG system TGE could really shine. A team dedicated to that core functionality, implementing and certifying extensions via Python, Java, or other means should be begun.

There's plenty of talent working on such things, like [ http://www.actionrpg.com ]. There should be something more than, 'hey these guys are cool check it out' going on.

What is GG's position on these enhancements and what might make it into the offical codebase?

What is going to be in version 2.0 so I don't waste time of things that might already be in the product.

4. Documentation, Documentation, Documenttation. Oh yeah, Documentation.



As always, glad to help make this happen.

#6 So, how would DX9 help in creating Mac and Linux games?

OpenGL is a nice architecture. Why not just keep building on that?

-Eric, MRT

#7 DX9 would NOT help in creating Mac and Linux games. Nobody is claiming that it would.

Again, a DX9 upgrade is being made by a third party for a third party specifically to make use of HLSL under Windows. This was not originally a change planned for submission to Garage Games.

As someone already mentioned, a upgrade to the licensable version of Torque can only increase the value of Torque to the GG community. But only if cross platform support is maintained and Mac and Linux developers are completely unaffected.

Any upgrade (if any) made to the licensable version of Torque for the GG community would be made in full collaboration with Garage Games and within the guidelines Garage Games has set forth.

Stay tuned ...

#8 Personally if their main objective of upgrading to DX9 was to use HLSL, then i'd not bother doing it and strongly consider using OpenGL and Cg. Cg is like 99% compatible with HLSL and works on all the platforms Torque supports! DirectX9 has some major benefits, VS/PS2.0 being good ones, but that level hardware won't reach saturation for a good while yet. But the biggest in my mind is the managed DirectX stuff and that's 0% useful to Torque.

I'm not actually sure why people are bothering to support DirectX for the TGE at all. To me it's primary benefit is it's cross platform ability and using DirectX immediatly toasts that. Trust me, i'm not a OpenGL fan boy but it definatly seems the best way to do it.

#9 I am in the Nvidia Developer program. I think it would be a great idea for GG to contact Nvidia about a formal agreement to add Cg functionality to the engine.

Good publicity for both companies. Always good to have such announcements at GDC too.

I can give them contact info if needed.

#10 Having just come back from the Dawn To Dusk Nvidia conference i'd never realised that they actually cared so much about the development aspects of the game. It seems they want people to have fast good looking games as much as the developers do. Which is nice... because it's what translates into sales for their latest and greatest. The technical level of the developer relations team was nothing short of amazing. Putting CG into a virtually open platform can't be far off a perfect scenario.

They sponsored the IGC as well, it might well be worth mentioning it to the GG folks and seeing what they can manage.

#11 My 2 cents. I agree that it may increase the cost of the engine unnecessarily. I agree with the post that says that other than managed code there is no additional true benefit for porting this to DX9.