Milkshape dsq compatible skeleton

#1 I'm new to Torque, but I'm pretty sure that the Milkshape dts exporter doesn't support dsq files.

#2 No DSQ or LOD support :(

#3 I remember seeing a MS player model once... but I can't remember where LoL


Ahh here we are...

/torque/example/fps/data/shapes/ms/player.ms3d

#4 We're using that model as our main player ;)

I think we'll call him Mr. Ice Cone.

#5 Nah, you guys have misunderstood my question (or more likely, I wrote it inclearly.)

My team has an animator who is making dsq files in 3dsmax. What I am chasing is a milkshape model that has a skeleton that is the same as the default max skeleton, so it can use the same dsq animations.

If anyone has a milkshape model with a skeleton that works (or could tell me how to make one) I would be thankful.

#6 I understood the question...

Thought that model had the full bones

#7 I might be wrong but when I looked at it I thought it only had the bones for the legs only :/

#8 The MilkShape model in that folder is a very simple one. It only has a few bones, but it does work. I didn't think you could use dsq animations with a milkshape model in that way, but it would be pretty cool to try. Too bad I can't afford 3DMax.

#9 Yeah, you can use a milkshape model with a dsq animation but, if the skeleton is not exactly the same, when the animation is running it generally pulls apart at the joints and looks really wierd.

#10 I don't know what is exported in the Max .asc, but that seems to be the only to get something from Max into MS (via the .asc import in MS). Might want to check it out.

#11 What really is needed are two converters to replace all the plug ins.

1. WaveFront OBJ to DTS converter -- load a WaveFront OBJ file, write a static DTS file. WaveFront OBJ is supported by virtually every 3d program, and seems to be the format most commonly used to exchange files on many modelling web-sites. Unlike 3DStudio files, there are no plug in dependencies in WaveFront Obj.

2. Biovision Hiearchy (BVH) to DSQ converter -- Almost every animation program can load and save this format; many, including Poser (a relatively low end product) can export partial animations, and you can always delete portions of the skeletons, if necessary, to get partial export in any 3d program.

With these two converters, virtually all 3d programs on the market would be usable, and anyone could make DSQ files.

My two cents worth.

#12 Milkshape skeltons are incompatible with DSQ animations exported from 3d studio max.

#13 As Joe says, the skeletons are not normally compatible. The problem is that Milkshape "normalize" all it's bone rotations, and Max does not. There is no way to turn this "feature" off in Milkshape, I've already asked the author. It would should be possible to build a compatible one, but you'd have to build it in MS, then export it as something that Max can load. As long as Max doesn't do anything tricky with the imported bones, you should be set.

#14 Tim, does it seem like there may be a way to "undo" the normalization with ms2dtsexporter ? another materials kludge maybe to manually set the joints' verctors or something?

#15 Dave Bacher has the best practices solution.

#16 Look guys, here's the situation (as I see it).

I'm not shelling out for 3D Studio Max -- I already have 3D software that does what I need. There is no reason for me to shell out a few thousand dollars, even if I had it, for Max.

However, unless I do that, this is the sequence I go through for common animations:
1. Make the model in Hash or Milkshape
2. Assign the points to bones in CharacterFX
3. Create a hierarchy file for Poser
4. Import the model into Poser
5. Animate the model in Poser
6. Save each animation to a separate BVH file
7. Open ech model that uses the common animation in Milkshape
8. Import the BVH file for each model
9. Count the frames for the animation, add the appropriate materials, for each model.
10. Export each model to DTS.

The sequence is similar, I'm sure, to what others are doing. The animation of the bones is 100% consistant for each model because of the process, so there is absolutely no reson it couldn't be stored external to the DTS file. The purpose of a DSQ file is to contain this data external to the DTS.

If you follow through those steps, you can see how error prone they are, and any time that i want to add a new action, I'm going to have to pass through that whole loop again.

In order for the DSQ feture to be useful, the animations have to be stored separately from the models. This is the process I would see, with converters like I specified:
1. Export from Hash/Milkshape in WaveFront Obj
2. Pull into Character FX, get the points assigned to skeleton, export.
3. Create Poser Hierarchy
4. Import the model into Poser
5. Animate the model
6. Save each file to a separate BVH
7. at a dos/linux prompt: for each %a in (*.bvh) do bvh2dts
8. at a dos/linux prompt: for each %a in (*.obj) do obj2dts

Step 1 through 5 could be done with any program that can write out files in the specified format, and since these programs already interoperate correctly, I would guess normalization, etc., ought to be the same (I imagine it's specified in the BioVision format), and so now what you've got is something that works for everyone.

Meanwhile, now you can take command line parameters for the modelling, so you could support CLOD, etc., as appropriate, across the board.

If the converters are split into three phases -- gather data, normalize data, write data -- then they could be used as the basis for the application-specific plug ins for 3D Studio and Milkshape, allowing both to write data formatted in the same way, and removing the compatibility issue between the two applications.

Anyway, basically what I'm looking at is the ability to reuse animations without having to manually import the animation into each DTS file.