Books

#1 I've been going through my internal notes that I've been taking about Torque for the last 5 years or so, tidying them up and then updating them for Torque3D when I get a access. I've started writing them up into an 'advanced' style book with proper chapters and screen shots ready for when we get Torque3D access.

Originally this was purely for my own benefit, but increasingly thinking it might be useful to other developers?

The sort of level I'm working at isn't, a newbie, more a experienced developer who has a game they want to make and realised what a good deal Torque3D is and has just downloaded it and get to that OMFG Torque3D is big and complex point :) Very much the crowd who are here pre-ordering Torque3D :) Not shy about getting into the source code, just doesn't want to re-invent the wheel.

Any thoughts on whether I should bother?, should it be a 'proper' book or some huge online resource? and what areas would we most like to cover?

#2 Make it a book or online resource. Just please get an editor for the grammar lol.

#3 Well yes, clearly published articles have a different level of grammar required than a forum post :P

#4 @Dean online or pdf would be fine for me. I read and purchase many things for coding even if I get one thing from a 500 page book that is one more thing I now know.

#5 Don't make a pdf, please. I do prefer online html!
You can use the google search and a lot of internet tricks for finding something inside, better than pdf.

1) Even we all know C++ you should make beginner tutorials.
2) You should write for people like you were a teacher teaching to C++ students in their second degree.
3) Don't forget to write beginner tutorials.
4) People think: "Hey, I am smart, I have coded this stuff, you know, if you were smart like me you should understand it!". :) I answer: "Hey, I don't know if I am smart, I don't have time to investigate it, so I will buy another engine with more documentation and tutorials."

Answers from GarageGames?, will it be usefull to buy those old books for this new engine?

Thanks,
Raquel

Ah, I think I forgot to tell you: write beginner tutorials! :)

#6 Hightly doubt it makes much sense.
TGEA 1.7 is already "not TGE / TGEA 1.0.x" anymore.
Especially the graphics layer basically breaks anything in those books thats related to rendering, transparency (in modelling and materials) and now with T3D having collada, I guess even the DTS stuff becomes part usefull only.
Same goes for the presence of polysoup collision instead of beeing forced to get stuff into the DIF format to have it in a performance wise usable format.

They might explain some of the basics, but thats it.

#7 In regard to Torque 3D, the only useful information in those books will the an introduction to TorqueScript syntax and usability. I will have that information in the official docs anyway.

By the way, any free contributions made to the official docs would be a huge help and benefit. Not just to me, but the whole Torque 3D community.

#8 Please... no PDF's, no books. They'll be outdated in months.

@Mitch - How would you prefer the docs? Drafted in TDN first? A resource entry? A forum post?

#9 I have been writing my docs in the latest version of MediaWiki, running locally on my machine. I have my own set of templates to ensure all the docs share a unified format.

I started this on TDN, but had to move to a local solution to avoid leaking Torque 3D information to the public. Once I finish an article, I saw the raw HTML page to my hard drive and run it through our converter which strips out all the unnecessary frames.

Finally, I'll edit the converted doc manually (Dreamweaver) to correct any dead links or image problems. When my intern was helping me, I had write the docs in the wiki and just send me the saved file. I'd do all the conversion and final revisions myself.

TDN is currently locked down due to security problems, but any version of MediaWiki will work.

#10 Happy to help write some docs :)
Okay I write them in Scrivener which can output them in most formats (rtf,doc/x, finaldraft, html, latex, etc.) but of course not MediaWiki, would HTML be okay?

#11 It would have to use the same formatting (CSS files, layout, headers, etc). If something you wrote looked identical to mine, then it is ready to be dropped in.

#12 So the pipeline would be
1) we write something
2a) convert/get it into a MediaWiki (possible run our own local one)
2b) convert it to a HTML page (with images)
3) Save and send them to you?
4) You review/edit
5) Gets posted?

I'm a little fuzzy on the whole MediaWiki aspect/HTML aspect. Do you have a template we could use (CSS files, etc.). Anything we need to do to the default MediaWiki support to more closely resemble yours?

Totally up for doing some free contributions to the Torque3D docs, just don't want to cause any more problems for you than necessary :)

#13 2a)All this requires is saving what you are viewing to your hard drive, just like saving any web page to offline as a stand-alone html file

I use the standard CSS files available with MediaWiki, which are overridden by the ones used in the Doc System. The templates I use are pretty simple. Ex:

Template:ContentStandard

<table width="700" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="text-align: justify;">
<tr>

<td width="700">
__TOC__
{{{1}}}
</td>

</tr>

</table>

So when you start your article it would look like this:

{{Template:ContentStandard|
<h2>Introduction</h2>
Sample text.


<h2>Section</h2>
Sample text.


<h2>Section</h2>
Sample text.
}}

There are a few others I have for handling tables and diagrams.

#14 @Tony You do know pdf is just an output of another document. Design so the document and formating would look the same no matter where it is viewed. For example I open a pdf on a mac or pc it would look the same. the statement, no pdfs because the information would be out dated in months can apply to any media including pure html web pages. What ever the format, the document should be easy to change otherwise it wont be changed for a very long time.

#15 @Jeffrey - No... Really?

/me bookmarks relevant information.

Thanks Mitch.

#16 PLEASE, yes lets see some PDF...I happen to not mind unplugging for a while and reading code. This whole no pdfs online only, Really. Books sure they can be outdated in months, but i would like to have a reference sheet i dont need to stop what im doing in full screen to go back and forth too. even with 2 monitors. I save all my docs offline anyway. So as soon as the docs become available Ill be making a copy of them for myself and my team.

#17 Make it simple: Make it a wiki style online thing and add the build pdf capability.
That gives best to both sides and is not really complex at least if a popular solution for the wiki style online thing is beeing used.

#18 The Torque 3D docs will be available online and offline, just in the format we've decided on. There will also be a very coherent progression through the docs so you can print off several in a row if you want.

#19

Quote:This whole no pdfs online only, Really.

You act like I was talking about GG's documentation when I was merely responding to Dean's question.

Quote:Any thoughts on whether I should bother?, should it be a 'proper' book or some huge online resource? and what areas would we most like to cover?

I am simply not interested in some third party book or PDF and I voiced my opinion, and you're welcome to voice yours... this is not a debate.

The conversation was essentially done with Mitch's response:

Quote:By the way, any free contributions made to the official docs would be a huge help and benefit. Not just to me, but the whole Torque 3D community.

And Dean's subsequent reply:

Quote:Happy to help write some docs :)

Why continue debating a moot point?

#20 @Tony yes really

All i was pointing out that pdfs do not make it any harder to change the information than any other media and that this argument

Quote:Please... no PDF's, no books. They'll be outdated in months.

does not make any sense. As ANY document, regardless of whether it is pdf, text, word or even html can be out dated in months.

I did not mean to offend.

edit reason
<had to correct misspelling and a misstatement from misread a post.>