Games made from the stock version of torque?

#1 So far, mine is :)

#2 I'm sure there are (i believe i saw a few in another forum). I like to think of Torque as a shell. All the basic components needed to make a killer game are there, however, to try and create a game engine that would suite the needs of EVERY game idea would be almost impossible (and expensive). Therefore you must tweak and modify the shell to suit your specific game needs. Sometimes (via clever scripting) there is no need to do so.

#3 Thanks for replies. It is just nice to know that a indie developer can make something decent with it right from the get go. When I bought it all I heard about was people downloading c++ engine tweaks and stuff to get something decent. I was mortified after hearing it, especially after purchasing the engine.

I spent a long while researching ways to get my money back, thinking I had been done out of a few hundred dollars (I bought both tge and tgea). All in all it is good to know that the possibility of creating something that is of modern standard is present. Thank god it is possible through scripting also but the only downfall is torquescripts massive learning curve but once it is learned and mastered the games will start to pour out of me.

The whole 'shell of a game engine' is over emphasised a bit and can be seen as a deterant (sorry I have terrible spelling). If to rephrase it "torque game engine allows the creation of games that mimic the quality of the majority of indie developed games today, if you want to build the next worldwide sensation THEN BUY ANOTHER ENGINE, to have fun use torque". Just my two cents.

Cheers Again.

#4 Shane 09 I see you are using tge 1.4.2. What is it like compared to 1.5.2 in your experience, for creating games?

#5 1.4.2 is an old version of the engine. 1.5.1 includes the lighting kit adding superior lighting to the engine.

Quote:The whole 'shell of a game engine' is over emphasised a bit and can be seen as a deterant (sorry I have terrible spelling). If to rephrase it "torque game engine allows the creation of games that mimic the quality of the majority of indie developed games today, if you want to build the next worldwide sensation THEN BUY ANOTHER ENGINE, to have fun use torque". Just my two cents.

Actually it's not. Torque is a great AAA engine. Tribes and Tribes 2 were both made with it and are AAA quality games. (they actually started this engine and predate any of the version numbers. This was the tribes engine.) TGEA adds Shaders and more to make an even better quality graphics to torque. This engine out of the box is suitable to make an fps or car racing game. With any engine, you will have to make a few tweeks to get things to work the way you want them too.
The engines are setup so that they can be used as a basic shell. That's a great selling point due to the fact you don't Have to rewrite the engine to make that extra special game.

#6 I appreciate your advice. One thing though about the whole AAA labeling of game engines. If a game engine that has been modified and released in the late 2000's is described as similar in any respect to that of a game released in the late 1990's is a bit ridiculous. Tribes when it was released at the time (1998) was AAA standard, today AAA standard is whole different game, no pun intended. Years ago the initial version of tge deserved the AAA title but not today. TGB and tgea maybe we will wait and see.

"Torque is a great AAA engine" - good NOT great.

A great engine is something that is easily changeable across the board, while removing the necessity to integrate several hundreds of user constructed resources.

Sorry just to say tribes and tribes 2 by todays standards are not AAA standard. By the way i have already looked into the history of the engine. That so called prestige/infamous calibre is what persuaded me to buy it. "With any engine you have to make a few tweaks" please with this engine you use what other have made in the resources and stuff just to get a particularly SIMPLE feature working and sometimes to rejuvanate another part you have to wait till another person re-writes that feature.

I do agree with this and this is what I meant "The engines are setup so that they can be used as a basic shell. That's a great selling point due to the fact you don't Have to rewrite the engine to make that extra special game" also.

"This engine out of the box is suitable to make an fps or car racing game" what? like every other game on the shelf at your local game stop/GAME.

Not trying to be offensive or a gimp but just stating the obvious, I have used several other engines also like the panda3d engine has all the features of the tge, tgb and tgea combined. I know someone will say 'why dont you go away a use that then' well I would if i hadnt paid for torque. Honestly it has grown on me so what can you do. :)

#7 For being a person who knows seemingly little about C++ or programming, you're underestimating a lot of the technical issues Torque has solved. Sure it's missing some "SIMPLE features", but I'd rather have to write the simple stuff than try to dive head first into all of the complex code already written that every game needs to use.

This way, I add on all the "simple features" I need and don't end up with some really fatty, bloated code that has remnants of a bunch of "simple features" I didn't need.


"[the engine is] good NOT great."

I'm not sure how you're able to ascertain that. I'm not fully able to understand exactly how complicated or well coded the engine is, so I'm waiting to pass judgment. You, however, have no clue what's under the hood and yet you've already decided exactly how good he engine is and how it compares to other engines (which I'm sure you don't fully understand either.)

I'm not trying to insult or demean you, because I'm in the same boat of not being quite as code savvy as the other people around here. You might need to partner up with some people who have the technical know-how to decide whether Torque would be a good engine for your game or not. If not (and this is important), you haven't wasted a whole lot of money on Torque, and you can chalk it up to inexperience.

"A great engine is something that is easily changeable across the board, while removing the necessity to integrate several hundreds of user constructed resources."

The ideal "engine" you're talking about in your post doesn't exist because that would be a Mod of a game - a pretty much already created game with a smaller learning curve and all the features you need ready to be scripted. That's not a bad thing, but that's not what Torque is.


"please, with this engine you use what other have made in the resources and stuff just to get a particularly SIMPLE feature working"

That's what you do if you don't know how to code. Really innovative games require innovation, not hand holding. It's really not the engine's fault. You need to contribute something great to a project for the project to be great, even if it's just some good UI graphics or prop models. You don't have to be a whiz coder, but to make a truly unique game, you may need to team up with one, otherwise you are simply SKINNING THE DEFAULT ENGINE. If that's all you want to do, then you'll need to do a lot more research on what engine you want to work with.


Torque is not the greatest engine, but it is a solution for a LOT of people. There are a lot of things that torque does behind the scenes, also, that you may not be aware of that may become a BIG problem down the road with some other engine. Technically speaking, I consider TGEA a AAA engine because it supports modern technology - full screen AFX, Reflective/Specular/Normal mapping, real time networking, polysoup collisions, particles.

Now, whether tribes2 used those features to their fullest extent is debatable. That is not reflexive of the engine, however. The engine is fully, FULLY capable of beautiful graphics right out of the box, no mods at all.




Long story short, give Torque a chance :)

#8 @Sean: It's really about evaluating your engine needs and going with that, and if you come here and say that you've evaluated a bunch of engines and TGE doesn't meet your needs, then you can't be faulted for that.

It should also be noted that the majority of engines that are used for games have their source modified by the development teams that use it. This is simply because an engine cannot be all things to all people. Torque is no different. It may not be as shiny as other engines, and it may have an edge or two on others. It's definitely more affordable than many, but more expensive than some. Individual needs come into play here, and it just might not be the best choice for you.

As for being able to create gameplay without touching the source- it's very possible. You can implement FPS features, as well as AI, inventory, crafting, and even something like an npc chat feature (that does take advantage of one source mod for ODBC access, but that mod is actually not necessary if you make script functions to read data in from files- it just so happens that I'm developing an MMO, and so require heavy database access). But by and large, you can make a game with scripting in just about any engine as long as you don't have to go outside of the bounds of what that engine is capable of.

#9 non-productive post

#10 Thank you ted. That is information that I wanted (your third paragraph). On your first and second paragraph I completely agree. It is only from my perspective and maybe I should have stated that from the start of the discussion. I will do it in future. Heh! I learnt something new nice one.

Good to hear that it is possible. I appreciate information given.

Thank you again

Sean.

#11 non-productive post

#12 "torque game engine allows the creation of games that mimic the quality of the majority of indie developed games today"

That QUALITY being...what? (careful, you happen to be one of the people making those "indie quality games")

"...if you want to build the next worldwide sensation THEN BUY ANOTHER ENGINE..."

And then start modifying THAT engine a bit to get the game that is specific to your idea

"[Torque is a great AAA engine] -
RESPONSE:
good NOT great...
(I bought both tge and tgea)..."

???

"...but the only downfall is torquescripts massive learning curve...?

How much previous knowledge did you have about coding language syntax, logic, etc? You may not posses the aptitude for it.

"That's what you do if you don't know how to code. Really innovative games require innovation, not hand holding".

YEP!

"The ideal 'engine' you're talking about in your post doesn't exist because that would be a Mod of a game - a pretty much already created game with a smaller learning curve and all the features you need ready to be scripted. That's not a bad thing..."

NOPE! Just a thing that doesn't require a whole lot of imagination, creativity, etc...

"The engine is fully, FULLY capable of beautiful graphics right out of the box..."

As long as you, the artist, put in beautiful graphics. Its only gonna render what you give it to render.

"Honestly it has grown on me so what can you do."

Cut your losses, suck it up, and start over with that "one size fits all" engine you're refering to. Available on planet NotQuite.

#13 Torque is a game engine, not your game. So it gives you a good framework and starting point, but in the end you still have to create your game and in the end if your game will be the best it can be you will want to dig into the source and optimize things for it.

This is true with every engine out there. The engines that don't let you dig in to the source simply prevent you from getting your game to the same potential of quality, no matter how well designed a single game engine cannot be fully optimized for every type of game.

#14 YEP!!!

#15 @ Sean Brady

I've never used the Torque Game Engine 1.5, yet. I might be upgrading. As of now, I'm not going to upgrade. TGE 1.4.2 seems to be doing pretty well for my needs.

#16 @Sean - I know about C4, panda, dark basic, Vatan etc. Being an "indie" engine does not make it incapable of producing AAA games. I was telling you why I thought torque qualified as a AAA engine, not why I think it's perfectly priced or why it's the bestest ever.

I was reading your post history, consisting of titles such as: "Finding already programmed features in torque?", "Is this complicated? pick up object and increment++", and this one, "Games made from the stock version of Torque". This lead me to believe that you had little coding experience because they are all about circumventing and avoiding C++ in general. You weren't giving me the impression that you understood the engine much, sorry if I assumed incorrectly. Usually people with strong coding backgrounds are busy coding solutions instead of asking for workarounds. I'm not trying to be mean, but that's the impression I got from you.

#17 non-productive post

#18 Cheers shane09.

Thanks.

#19 non-productive post

#20 Sorry yeah those forums and questions that are posted and ones that will be posted are just for research papers and theories proposed for technically game design for my game design thesis. Also when dealing with complex programming algorithims and stuff it is really nice to just brush over the basic logic which makes it what it is collectively. Just like martial arts training all the different moves and formations have there own techniques that eventually after practice are formed in a collective to create a fighting style. Something along those lines.