What type of TGB will i need?

#1 I don't know if I'd call XNA "crappy", but maybe that's just me.

Irreverant posts really rub me the wrong way and I'm reticent to even reply, but I know others have had similar questions.

You can do a lot in TorqueScript, so it's more than likely that you can make something worthwhile with the basic TGB.

The 360 wired controller can work with Torque or nearly any game engine, but it's kind of weird in how it handles the Z-axis on the shoulder buttons and it treats the right joystick as x-rotation and y-rotation, then the d-pad as a POV hat. The buttons do work fine as well.

#2 XNA will cease being crappy once the Professional version is released, not requiring other users to have XNA installed to run the apps. Plus a half decent 3D animation library.
once it has one or both of those, itll be awesome.

Not to sound rude or anything but i am curious what you mean by "irreverant posts"? Im just seeking some knowledge on how much cash i actually need to spend in order to do this project, but because the search function came up dry this was the best place to post this :p


But i digress, again not trying to sound rude.


I will certainly try to do something in TGB with TScript, but how easy is it to upgrade to the Source code version once ive purchased TGB sans Code? Will i just pay the difference or will i have to repurchase the whole thing again?


thanks for the advice on the controller, thats a rather interesting way of having the button layout but hey that works regardless :)

#3 I guess that would make all Java applications "crappy". Would that make all DirectX games "crappy"? XNA requires the XNA Redstributable to work, not the SDK. You seem to have totally missed the point on XNA, it's *not* an engine, nor does it try to be. It's a framework for bringing some commonality to developing on the 360 and PC and does a great job at it. Also, it's free, which is a pretty strong distinction and allows you to develop on the 360. There is a Torque available which supports 360 development, but it's not generally available to the public.

TGB is a game engine, which means it's something entirely different. It builds on some other non-GarageGames technology, such as OpenAL, but that's really not uncommon. That also means you're going to be greatly more confined on how the internals work. Sure, you have the source code, but there is no way you could easily modify the internals of the engine.

You can makes games in TorqueScript, but you will need to get into the source code a bit. So you'll need some strong C++ skills to get the most of the engine.

When you upgrade to the source version, you pay the difference. That's it. GarageGames has been pretty awesome about transparency in purchasing things.

#4 holy crap guys im not trying to stir up crap here alright?

Yep i totally know it requires the runtime to run XNA. You know what works better with less crashes and the ability to run the programs? The compiler.
I remember trying this sucker out back when the redistributable runtime framework wasnt "technically" available and required the SDK and Compiler installed for things to run properly. I tried it again back in November08 and either i missed something or that Runtime framework redist boinked the dog because its as unstable as all hell. That and it still didn't contain a proper 3D Animation library yet? Also the "Professional" version of the compiler wasn't released yet allowing those to create XNA things without all the loop jumping?! Come on! its been around THREE years since it was announced!

I never once said XNA was an engine, ive worked with XNA before, its a C# library and extension of Visual C#. Ive made a few little cruddy games with it from the ground up, but gave up when NO ONE would install the damn environment so they could run the bloody things.
Flash version download: 500, XNA download: 1
No.


Now enough of this alright? This isn't the point of this thread, at ALL. (jesus you make ONE comment about something and everyones gotta come up in arms) I am no longer reading comments on this subject. Lets get on with this:

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Im glad to hear that GG makes these sorts of things easy to upgrade.

i still havent gotten the chance to even try the demo, ive been so wrapped up with work and editing audio that i havent even checked it out :( I know what its capable of when it comes to the games ive seen, (Anything the Behemoths made for example) from overhead shooters to sidescrolling beatem ups, yet no fighters. I want to attribute that to the fact that Fighters sort of died around after arcades died and after MK3s release, and it hasn't picked up again until Street Fighter 4 got released :) Im hoping to see an influx of fan made fighters, and i want to jump aboard this bandwagon.


So when it boils down to it, say ive only got TorqueScript version, will i be able to:

Freeze the stage horizontal size?
Dynamically pan and zoom the camera?
Capture inputs from both Keyboard and Joystick?
Capture the sprites current animation state (both at same time)?
Perform calculations based on their state to determine what state to play next and any kind of damage taken?
Adjust when and what moves during states can be executed at certain timings?
Dynamically adjust the hitbox? (ive read somewhere it only supports one hitbox per sprite, or what that TorqueXNA?)
Create a branched story arc complete with cinematics based on the character chosen?
Can i program AI on a per character basis?



and all the basic stuff that comes in a 2D Fighting package. If torque script can allow me to do all this, then thats the version i need :) But one thing i am curious about as well, can i upgrade the Network library to allow for real-time input rather than "turn based"? or is it permanently strung to the Lite version?


thanks! (and again, no more on XNA please, thats not what this thread is about)

#5 Good luck on your project.

#6 Kyle: Yes, you can do all those things in script.

#7 Hey Jason, Thanks for your input, and i appreciate the fact you honored my request about the debate. My apologies for blowing up at you too.


Hey Chris, I just want to make sure, but that does encapsulate the idea behind AI right? It can do that too?

Also regarding the Networking technology, is that upgradable from Lite to a standard version allowing real-time networking?

#8 Kyle, there is no such thing as "real-time" networking. It's a myth.

For games, there's mostly stream-based and event-based, but there is no "real-time". The goal is to have the simulation seem close enough on each client. Even with some of the best programming in the world, Client B is just not going to know when Client A pressed a button until some time after Client A has pressed that button.

What you'll need to do is worry about things like reverse-simulation, prediction, etc. Certain techniques can make it *seem* pretty good, but even when playing Left 4 Dead in System Link (and Valve does have some above-average programmers) you can see some lag in it.

#9 Yes, you can do AI on a per-character basis. I've done it in my projects.

#10 hey Jason, yeah that makes sense, i kinda figured thats the way networking does work, but for the life of me i could not figure out a good term to use to describe it haha. May i ask what "Reverse Simulation" is though? Thats one ive never heard of before (in context)


THanks Chris :D im feeling good about this now...

#11 This is a great thread - I'm researching my 2D engine choices (I'm a decent c++ developer, among other languages) and I'm trying to gain more insight into the power of TGB. Keep the info coming!

#12 No problem. I've thought quite a bit about how I'd go about implementing something like Street Fighter. I think if you plan it out correctly, you should have no problem putting it together.

#13 It's not that I don't like XNA... It's just... DX is horrible. The only reason that I could think of to use it is because it has an integrated audio framework, but OpenGL+OpenAL is much better in speed, performance, and rendering. DX is also single-platform: PC (I guess 360 too, but you can't just put the game in the computer and hook a controller to it), so it really isn't a viable choice unless you do not know how OpenGL works.

#14 D3D shouldn't really be that different from GL in the way it works, but OpenGL is definitely the most portable solution if you don't need to port to the 360. But if you do, a pre-made game engine like TGB is just what the doctor ordered. If you don't fiddle with the actual 3D instructions yourself, it doesn't matter how many different 3D platforms it supports internally (GL, GLES, DX).

Since they're abstracted for 2D use anyway, you shouldn't care. ALL hardware acceleration goes faster than drawing your 2D to memory buffers manually.

Start making what you can with the TGB trial, buy the non-source licence if it seems to fit you, and upgrade to Pro if there are some things you absolutely can't do in script. Personally, I like being able to tweak the executable by removing unnecessary things or adding auto-updaters like Sparkle.