V12 engine - feasibility for space-combat sim
by Andrew C · in Torque Game Engine · 06/29/2001 (7:46 pm) · 7 replies
I've been trying to build a space/strategy combat sim using the Unreal and Quake3 engines, but ran into problems each time due to limitations of those engines to handle full 3-D movement calculations.
The limitation has to due with those engines being heavily optimized for first-person-shooter style games. Carmack's engine is more appropriate than the Unreal engine, since the Unreal network code filters out "roll" data, but Carmack's device-input code does not allow for the camera-view of the player to change the viewpoint across any arbitrary axis.
I decided to start researching the use of the DirectX-8 SDK, but I'm not crazy about the idea of building the entire game framework from scratch.
The V12 engine is certainly attractive, so I wanted to ask the following questions about it's usefulness for a spaceship-combat sim, to help avoid wasting time like I did developing for the other engines, and to also decide if I want to plunk down the $100 or not.
1) Since the V12-specs mentions Quaternion support, does this mean that a player's camera view can be created that allows rotation and movement along any axis? As if you were playing a space-fighter sim, you can change your view to point to any direction;
2) Does the V-12 engine allow for dynamic and interactive overlays to be visible while rendering the game environment? For example, I want to place controls on the screen the user can interact with using their mouse, yet the space game-scene should still be rendering in the background;
3) Does the V-12 engine allow for data to be saved between server-game reloads? For example, if during a game session the game finishes, and I wish to propagate the team-stats to the next scenario, can the server store this data and reload it when the next game-session loads?
4) I know Tribes 2 implements code to support physics for vehicles. Can this physics code handle cases of zero-gravity conditions?
5) If I wanted to build a game that was similar to Homeworld or Star Trek: Dominion Wars, does the player interface allow for a mouse-based drag-select that would translate into causing objects to be indicated as selected in the player's camera view?
Any answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
The limitation has to due with those engines being heavily optimized for first-person-shooter style games. Carmack's engine is more appropriate than the Unreal engine, since the Unreal network code filters out "roll" data, but Carmack's device-input code does not allow for the camera-view of the player to change the viewpoint across any arbitrary axis.
I decided to start researching the use of the DirectX-8 SDK, but I'm not crazy about the idea of building the entire game framework from scratch.
The V12 engine is certainly attractive, so I wanted to ask the following questions about it's usefulness for a spaceship-combat sim, to help avoid wasting time like I did developing for the other engines, and to also decide if I want to plunk down the $100 or not.
1) Since the V12-specs mentions Quaternion support, does this mean that a player's camera view can be created that allows rotation and movement along any axis? As if you were playing a space-fighter sim, you can change your view to point to any direction;
2) Does the V-12 engine allow for dynamic and interactive overlays to be visible while rendering the game environment? For example, I want to place controls on the screen the user can interact with using their mouse, yet the space game-scene should still be rendering in the background;
3) Does the V-12 engine allow for data to be saved between server-game reloads? For example, if during a game session the game finishes, and I wish to propagate the team-stats to the next scenario, can the server store this data and reload it when the next game-session loads?
4) I know Tribes 2 implements code to support physics for vehicles. Can this physics code handle cases of zero-gravity conditions?
5) If I wanted to build a game that was similar to Homeworld or Star Trek: Dominion Wars, does the player interface allow for a mouse-based drag-select that would translate into causing objects to be indicated as selected in the player's camera view?
Any answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
#2
06/30/2001 (10:35 am)
Thanks for your feedback, Mark. Guess I'll be spending $100 when the code is released...
#3
What will be included in the 100 dollar package? (I know this is vague, but I mean like "will there be a level editor? i.e. q3radiant)
EDIT: I have read the FAQ and this question is not very clear to me. I am not sure if the only program available will be WorldCraft or if with the release there will be something else
06/30/2001 (4:44 pm)
I am wondering some thing about the V12 engine as well, but I didn't want to start another thread. So I will ask here:What will be included in the 100 dollar package? (I know this is vague, but I mean like "will there be a level editor? i.e. q3radiant)
EDIT: I have read the FAQ and this question is not very clear to me. I am not sure if the only program available will be WorldCraft or if with the release there will be something else
#4
Addendum: There's a level editor build into the engine. To see it, open a LAN game in Tribes 2, go into the console and type 'editor.open()'.
06/30/2001 (5:13 pm)
Please, just go read the FAQ and puruse the forums. All these questions have been answered many times already. Thank you.Addendum: There's a level editor build into the engine. To see it, open a LAN game in Tribes 2, go into the console and type 'editor.open()'.
#5
06/30/2001 (11:31 pm)
You get the source code to the engine, the support libraries, and the tools. You also get a test application and some basic data and scripts to use for the test application. You will also get any additional supporting software needed like the Visual C++'s Service Pack 5. Structure editing is currently only supported by Worldcraft, which I believe you will have to download (may be included on the cd but it is only a 3 Mb download). The mission/terrain editor is built into the engine (as mentioned above). You will get a very basic set of documents but they are mostly on setting up the v12 and the tools. More documentation will be written in the future.
#6
07/01/2001 (12:30 pm)
Thanks for clearing that up :)
#7
RC1 (Release Candidate 1) will be available in a few days. Beta 1&2 were incomplete versions so don't pay too much attention to those. The big issue is the lack of tools, all you get is a Max plugin and a framework for engine plugins.
www.auran.com/jet
07/01/2001 (9:19 pm)
I don't know how important good tools are to you but AuranJet is (will be) a good general purpose rendering engine that would probably be suitable also. RC1 (Release Candidate 1) will be available in a few days. Beta 1&2 were incomplete versions so don't pay too much attention to those. The big issue is the lack of tools, all you get is a Max plugin and a framework for engine plugins.
www.auran.com/jet
Associate Mark Frohnmayer
Yes.
2) Does the V-12 engine allow for dynamic and interactive overlays to be visible while rendering the game environment? For example, I want to place controls on the screen the user can interact with using their mouse, yet the space game-scene should still be rendering in the background;
Yes. The 3D view is just a GUI control... and you can have HUDs on top of the 3D view that handle mouse input and display data.
3) Does the V-12 engine allow for data to be saved between server-game reloads? For example, if during a game session the game finishes, and I wish to propagate the team-stats to the next scenario, can the server store this data and reload it when the next game-session loads?
Absolutely. Remember, with the V12 you have full source access so at the very least you could write the data to disk yourself... though you'd probably find it easier to just leave the team stats in script variables that persist across mission loads.
4) I know Tribes 2 implements code to support physics for vehicles. Can this physics code handle cases of zero-gravity conditions?
You would probably want to code your own space flight dynamics, but you could use the basic vehicle code as a template.
5) If I wanted to build a game that was similar to Homeworld or Star Trek: Dominion Wars, does the player interface allow for a mouse-based drag-select that would translate into causing objects to be indicated as selected in the player's camera view?
You could certainly code up a custom control to do this... it would use the view frustrum and the selected box within it to build a query volume for the object database... actually, the mission editor does this already, so you could use the code for that as an example.
Ciao!