Writing

#21 I think John has several good points here, and reading them has reinforced my own similar opinions.

But I think he's going a little bit overboard here.

I love RPGs. I've played some RPGs with little or no story. And the are fun games. But I would enjoy them more if they were more story-based.

But I don't play RPGs for the story. I play them so that I can wander around, doing things in the game (usually fighting).

So you should have someone writing some kind of a story for any game. But when there comes a point where you have to trade off some of the gameplay to make the story better, don't do it.

I'll use Final Fantasy as an example. All the games FF4 (called FF2 in the U.S.) and higher have this same problem.

There's long cutscenes. The cutscenes should be short. When talking to someone, they should say a few sentences, and then you should be able to comment upon what they say (either by picking a reply from a list or, possibly, by typing something in).

There should never be any part of the game where you lose control of your character for more than a few seconds. I only mean the actual game - you can have a long intro movie if you want, but there should be some way to skip it.

You should always be in control of your character. I think your freedom should be restricted in some ways (e.g. you shouldn't be able to walk to the last dungeon in the game when you just started), but these restrictions should be enforced from within the game. It should always at least APPEAR that you have choices.

In FF, the story and the game are 2 seperate things. You wander around playing the game. When you get to a particular spot, the story will start playing on the screen. You have no part in the story whatsoever. It's like reading a book.

The story should be "written" by the player when he/she interacts with the world, just with a little help from the world around them. Story elements should be introduced with the game. Rather then seeing some conversation happening somewhere, you should learn it from someone you're talking to by asking them specific questions. Or, even better, they should be involved in the event somehow. They should do some quest that is related to the event or encounter some object or person that wouldn't be there except for the event.

Anyways, I basically agree with John.

#22 My 2 cents: I think it's a lot like the movies. Having good special effects is nice, but you also need good actors, a good script and a good director. It's like asking what's more important in a pizza: the topping or the dough. Screw up one of them and the while pizza stinks.

Many games played nicely but really turned me off with bad dialogue and voice acting. The problem was especially obvious in games that suppose to have a strong atmosphere like horror survival games (Carrier springs to mind as a prime example).

Final Fantasy X is a great example to addictive gameplay and great writing/voice acting coming together to create a truly engrossing experience. IMHO.

#23 In the Game Ideas forum, there are a couple of threads started by Colin Castro discussing the idea of starting a community for writers.

Last time I checked, they'd been pushed onto the second page due to other threads being replied to, but a couple of site owners (including myself) did provide forums for him, if you're interested.

#24 You both have a point, but in a way you don't.

There is one thing that you guys are overseeing. That is that ***games do not have to be made ANY certain way!*** Take Final fantasy again. It is true that you don't have that much control over the story (even though recent games like FFX2 and tactics games have in a good way). But this does not make the game less than what it should be. The designers wanted to TELL a story, and have you do most of the cool stuff, like fighting. You are NOT controlling your own character, but you are controlling the unimportant fate of the character from the story. If you could do anything you want to change the story, the end might not be as dramatic... plus, we don't have affordable technology to give people that kind of flexibility. Some games today just try to draw the player in enough to believe the story, and "care" about the characters... but thats because that's some people's goals... just to TELL the story. It's set apart from books and movies though, because movies don't give you the time to get into it sometimes, and books may not be as believable, and then there is the factor that games give you some part in the action, and its up to YOU to beat that giant dragon... so in a way, it's your own adventure.

As for SEEMING to have more than 1 way to go in a game, some games have been doing that lately. (FFX2, tactics, zelda, even other FF's to some point) But for a lot of it, it does seperate what you HAVE to do and what are sidequests a little too much. Today, developers make someone say "I want to go to somethingville because i like the balloons they sell" (Yeah I know thats cheesy) and then a big event in the story just so "happens" to happen there. There should be few or no hints, but to keep the player from feeling like they have to go FIND the next place to go, every place may have an important point to the plot, or has some good sidequest. Final Fantasy usually does this fairly well. But it can always be done better...

As for games not needing a story, they don't. Now let's just not throw them out though... again, it all comes down to the goal the designer wanted to reach. Some want just a game that you can have fun ALWAYS playing, with no interruptions, but doesn't have a story (tetris). If you just want to have fun, play these. If you want to become part of an adventure, play an RPG that inevitably has movie sequences. If you want your own adventure, be the first person to design something like this and STILL make it dramatic (my goal), (unless your satisfied with today's MMORPG's), because it hasn't been done yet.

I have a game philosophy section on my profile on AIM, so if you also have AIM, my screen name is gamermanbc... check it out if you want if im online... although i don't have that much stuff in it yet.

#25 Let me throw a few things at you.

I don't like RTS category games very much, and yet I played through most of Starcraft just because I enjoyed the storyline they were laying out. In my mind this is a good indication that story in itself can make a game.

It's hard getting those game industry writing gigs. The job postings I've seen require a couple published novels to your name! My first thought is always, "if I had a few published novels I wouldn't be looking for a 30K a year job" but maybe that is based on a misconception.

#26 Here's a quote from a recent Game Infromer Mag by the 2 ceo's of Bioware:

"The real power of story is rooted in its non-liniarity."

Its a great article by the way... go by gamestop and pick up the mag before next month. It has everything to do with this topic.

But if I were to say it, I would change the word "power" to "art". Just me, though...

#27 <>

Misconception is right! ;) FYI, most published authors don't make much more than 30K a year off of their novels (if that)! Take it from one who knows--I've got five published mystery novels (with Penguin-Putnam) plus a bunch of short stories, and I believe the majority of published novelists out there don't write (fiction, anyways) for the money; they write because they love to tell stories (and, yes, most of them also cherish dreams of becoming the next Stephen King and writing a book called "On Writing")! :)

I've long been an author *and* a gamer, and I've always been intrigued by the way a really good game will bring me into the story and yet allow me to keep some level of control over my character, further immersing me in the story and contributing to the suspension of disbelief. I like to think that gaming and movies will eventually merge at some level to create a third medium which is neither one nor the other, won't replace either one, and certainly won't appeal to everyone either. And I agree with what most folks are saying, here--i.e., that storyline IS important to most good games, but the degree varies depending on the game and the player's level of interest in becoming "involved."

I'd like to respectfully disagree with something Ted said in his post, though: "You can have the best story in the world but your game will blow if you don't design the game to hook the player and draw them into it." It's kind of ironic, but something I tell folks when I teach writing workshops is that your STORY will blow if it doesn't hook the READER and draw them into it! On the other hand, I do agree that it is indeed possible to have a good story that WOULD draw the player in, but ends up failing because of poor integration through the game--either the story isn't told well via the game-medium, or perhaps the story and the game are poorly matched (e.g., a character-heavy family drama played out in a Mech FPS! :) ).

So, I guess I'm saying that a good story and a good game go together like wine and cheese, making something truly delicious, while a crummy version of either one is sort of like pairing Cabernet Sauvignon with Velveeta. Sure, the Rothschild is great, but the Kraft ends up stinking up the whole experience! :)

#28 I think good stories in games are under rated. I loved the side switching in starcraft, the unfolding plot of Primal and Silent Hill 2. I wish I could get someone to create a good script and plotlines for me.
I think the key to writing for a game is to work like a rough draft screen play. So the major scenes and keypoints are covered but how you get between them is down to the player. With a good engine you could trigger key points when they fit in so every game could be different.