TGEA 1.7.1 VRS TGEA1.8 performance comparison results:
by Caylo Gypsyblood · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 01/19/2009 (4:28 am) · 43 replies
I have read several times about a performance difference between TGEA1.7.1 and TGEA1.8 so decided to run some TGEA 1.7.1 vrs TGEA 1.8 METRICS(FPS); tests and took screen shots to compare the results.
Testing system is an AMDx2 2.8, 2 gig ram, 2 GF8500 with 256meg each(NOT SLI), 1 GF8200 with 128meg running Video driver 175.19 on XP PRO 32bit SP2.
Test are right from SDK GameExamples Stronghold with no settings changed.
This is TGEA 1.7.1

Here is TGEA 1.8

Now i added to mission file;

Here is TGEA 1.8

Not truly a real game scenario, but simple enough test to give an idea.
One can notice right away that TGEA1.7.1 is a bit FPS faster, but once both builds have some stress on them (latter two pic's) the FPS is near the same.
My observations that are not noticeable from screen shot is 1.7.1 pause multiple times for about 100MS each once the fxShapeReplicator mass came into the viewstrum. And the 1.8 3D positional sound FX were very realistic, much better then TGE versions and even TGEA1.7.1. Both could be results of hardware configuration and not examples of build version differences.
It would be interesting if other TGEA SDK holders would also run GameExamples Stronghold metrics test and post results, just to see how much differences hardware configurations actually make.
Testing system is an AMDx2 2.8, 2 gig ram, 2 GF8500 with 256meg each(NOT SLI), 1 GF8200 with 128meg running Video driver 175.19 on XP PRO 32bit SP2.
Test are right from SDK GameExamples Stronghold with no settings changed.
This is TGEA 1.7.1

Here is TGEA 1.8

Now i added to mission file;
new fxShapeReplicator(lottatest) {
canSaveDynamicFields = "1";
Enabled = "1";
position = "441.157 201.387 209.828";
rotation = "1 0 0 0";
scale = "1 1 1";
HideReplications = "0";
ShowPlacementArea = "1";
PlacementAreaHeight = "25";
PlacementColour = "0.4 0 0.8 1";
shapeFile = "scriptsAndAssets/data/shapes/trees/shrub.dts";
seed = "1376312589";
ShapeCount = "500";
ShapeRetries = "100";
InnerRadiusX = "0";
InnerRadiusY = "0";
OuterRadiusX = "100";
OuterRadiusY = "100";
AllowOnTerrain = "1";
AllowOnInteriors = "1";
AllowOnStatics = "1";
AllowOnWater = "0";
AllowWaterSurface = "0";
AlignToTerrain = "0";
Interactions = "1";
AllowedTerrainSlope = "90";
TerrainAlignment = "1 1 1";
ShapeScaleMin = "1 1 1";
ShapeScaleMax = "4 4 4";
ShapeRotateMin = "0 0 0";
ShapeRotateMax = "0 0 0";
OffsetZ = "0";
};This is TGEA 1.7.1
Here is TGEA 1.8

Not truly a real game scenario, but simple enough test to give an idea.
One can notice right away that TGEA1.7.1 is a bit FPS faster, but once both builds have some stress on them (latter two pic's) the FPS is near the same.
My observations that are not noticeable from screen shot is 1.7.1 pause multiple times for about 100MS each once the fxShapeReplicator mass came into the viewstrum. And the 1.8 3D positional sound FX were very realistic, much better then TGE versions and even TGEA1.7.1. Both could be results of hardware configuration and not examples of build version differences.
It would be interesting if other TGEA SDK holders would also run GameExamples Stronghold metrics test and post results, just to see how much differences hardware configurations actually make.
#22
So far for the most part we just have some Intel and AMD Nvidia data. Toss a little ATI into the mix and see whats happening there.
I will pull out the old single core P4 and see what the data is showing on it.
01/22/2009 (6:58 am)
Once I get my ATI HD4670 today or tomarrow I will run afew tests with it to see if theres any major different between the two on a pure ATI setup.So far for the most part we just have some Intel and AMD Nvidia data. Toss a little ATI into the mix and see whats happening there.
I will pull out the old single core P4 and see what the data is showing on it.
#24
01/22/2009 (12:54 pm)
I could try with AA as well.. But as you've said, we can be pretty confident it's a CPU issue... We should really get some GarageGames employee activity on this thread
#25
01/22/2009 (1:39 pm)
Im actually surprised some GarageGames employee have NOT made any reply yet. Nothing back from submitted bug reports, or a message posted in the company/contact form. Yet one more point defining the difference between an AAA engine, and well Torque(I bring it up after reading how GG wish to aim higher, and expect to charge more for T3D). I dont want to hear about how busy they are, i manage to get a lot of work done, and check the forums and make replys minimally once an hour.
#26
01/22/2009 (5:00 pm)
I had a conversation with Michael Perry on IRC, he said he'd forward the thread and concerns to the developers and hopefully we'll get a reply soon. It would be nice if we could at least get official acknowledgement of this issue.
#28
01/22/2009 (6:38 pm)
@Martin: Interesting... Do you think you could try in a slightly more realistic resolution? like minimum 1024? That would be great
#29
01/22/2009 (6:56 pm)
Im actually done with this. I have been up and down in the code, comparing line by line 1.8 and 1.7.1. Its not a glitch that i have the know how to fix. And I think the data so far collected should help GG find a solution or at least an explanation, if they care to investigate it.
#30
By proemial at 2009-01-22
fps: 171, max: 171
1280x960, 1.8.0
By proemial at 2009-01-22
fps: 110, max: 223
01/22/2009 (6:57 pm)
1280x960, 1.7.1By proemial at 2009-01-22
fps: 171, max: 171
1280x960, 1.8.0
By proemial at 2009-01-22
fps: 110, max: 223
#31
@Caylo : Yeah this is out of my league... But at least we can be reasonably sure we isolated it and hopefully GG takes notice.
01/22/2009 (9:46 pm)
@Martin : Thanks, not as bad as mine but we can really see the issue clearly...@Caylo : Yeah this is out of my league... But at least we can be reasonably sure we isolated it and hopefully GG takes notice.
#32
01/22/2009 (9:54 pm)
Yup, that all i expected by this. TGEA1.8 have features i wish to use but not if there is a fundamental flaw.
#33
01/22/2009 (10:01 pm)
Thanks for starting the thread I think it was very helpful. I'll keep trying to get a GG response...
#34
@Caylo+Helk
As for bug reports, rest assured they do get noticed even if you do not get a reply.
As for replies from GG around here, I am *not* an employee of GG but I do work on contract and get paid for doing bugfixing work on Torque. So, it's probably okay to say that you do have GG's attention here. I'm still digging into 1.8 performance issues.
BTW, you're all comparing Stronghold here. Stronghold runs legacy terrain which, as I said before, has some serious performance issues in 1.8 that I'm still digging into.
01/23/2009 (12:55 pm)
@Caylo+Helk
As for bug reports, rest assured they do get noticed even if you do not get a reply.
As for replies from GG around here, I am *not* an employee of GG but I do work on contract and get paid for doing bugfixing work on Torque. So, it's probably okay to say that you do have GG's attention here. I'm still digging into 1.8 performance issues.
BTW, you're all comparing Stronghold here. Stronghold runs legacy terrain which, as I said before, has some serious performance issues in 1.8 that I'm still digging into.
#35
Stronghold is just an default, the terrain itself do not effect any more difference then other things in the 1.7.1 and 1.8 performance ratios. I feel sad the person that could have used the collected data missed the point of it......
01/23/2009 (1:10 pm)
Quote: BTW, you're all comparing Stronghold here. Stronghold runs legacy terrain which, as I said before, has some serious performance issues in 1.8 that I'm still digging into.
Stronghold is just an default, the terrain itself do not effect any more difference then other things in the 1.7.1 and 1.8 performance ratios. I feel sad the person that could have used the collected data missed the point of it......
#36
Rene is an official GG representative (he would be an employee if the US didn't have such horrible immigration laws) so we are keeping track of things =)
01/23/2009 (1:15 pm)
While I haven't been tracking this thread directly, Rene and Alex Scarborough have been keeping me very much in the loop about the TGEA 1.8.0 performance issues.Rene is an official GG representative (he would be an employee if the US didn't have such horrible immigration laws) so we are keeping track of things =)
#37
01/23/2009 (1:16 pm)
By the way, I just have to say that this thread highlights just how awesome the GG community is! Where else do you see people jumping in together to help each other like this? =)
#38
01/23/2009 (1:17 pm)
What do you say about the possibility that it is an INTEL PC cpu performance issue?
#39
Let us know if there is anything we can provide that might help.
01/23/2009 (1:21 pm)
@Rene / Matt: thanks for the info!Let us know if there is anything we can provide that might help.
#40
@Caylo
Judging from the profile info, the terrain *does* make all the difference. In T3D it's easily eating up 50% of the running time. In a loop that does no GFX work.
I'm sorry it came across as if I dismissed the data you collected. Not by any means. I'll fix the terrain performance and if performance doesn't get to be en par with 1.7.1 in Stronghold, I'll surely dig deeper.
01/23/2009 (1:39 pm)
@Caylo
Judging from the profile info, the terrain *does* make all the difference. In T3D it's easily eating up 50% of the running time. In a loop that does no GFX work.
I'm sorry it came across as if I dismissed the data you collected. Not by any means. I'll fix the terrain performance and if performance doesn't get to be en par with 1.7.1 in Stronghold, I'll surely dig deeper.
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Torque 3D Owner Martin Young