TGEA vs Unity 3D in 2009
by Staples · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 01/14/2009 (3:43 pm) · 73 replies
I decided to post this on both forums in order to get a proper result taking into account any bias. There is some good info comparing these on this forum already, but I want people to have a clear cut comparison, with the Windows Developer coming out for Unity, this opens it up as an option for many people who otherwise would have to use Torque.
These are basically the two engines we are deciding between.
Our game will be a multiplayer rpg with a client/server setup similar to what you would get in a MMO, but on a much smaller scale.
I have found *some* info on people comparing the two engines, however a lot of that information is largely out of date and quite a few things have changed since. Unity 2.5 is nearly out, and this means that we will be able to develop on windows and publish for BOTH windows and mac with the Indie version.
As I see it there are a couple of major feature differences. I understand that you have the source with TGEA, meaning anything is *technically* possible, but from what I've read some of it is a lot of work to implement.
If I miss anything please let me know. I'll start comparing the Indie versions, then the Pro/Commercial versions
Unity Indie vs TGEA Indie:
- TGEA is $295 USD, Unity Indie is $200 USD.
- TGEA gives you source code, Unity does not.
- TGEA has dynamic shadows from players and I believe you can get it working on other stuff with some effort. Unity Indie is restricted to blob shadows.
- Unity has PhysX, Joints and Ragdolls built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has Seamless terrains built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has much better documentation, tutorials and resources than Torque
- TGEA works alot nicer with external svn software.
- Unity has a much better scene editor
- Unity has a much better and more efficient art pipeline
Unity Pro vs TGEA Commercial:
- TGEA is $1495 USD, Unity Indie is $1499 USD.
- TGEA gives you source code, Unity does not.
- Unity seems to have all of the features that TGEA has
- Unity has self shadows and overall more shadow options (is this true)
- Unity has PhysX, Joints and Ragdolls built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has a much better
- Unity has much better documentation, tutorials and resources than Torque
- TGEA works alot nicer with external svn software.
- Unity has a much better scene editor
- Unity has a much better and more efficient art pipeline
It is a bit hard to compare since TGEA has the advantage of having the source, but I have included what is out of the box and not 'quickly and easy' to implement even with the source in TGEA.
Having the Source code can be good and bad. When you do have the source you CAN fix bugs yourself and implement other things which is good, however as you see with TGEA, this can mean the developers aren't particularly quick to release any fixes. When you don't have the source as with Unity, it is up to the engine developer to fix the bugs, something the Unity team apparently do pretty damn quickly - this of course will not be the case with all engine developers.
Let me know if I have missed anything or if there are any suggestions. I have to allegiance to either product (yet) so I am just putting it as I see it with what information I have gathered.
These are basically the two engines we are deciding between.
Our game will be a multiplayer rpg with a client/server setup similar to what you would get in a MMO, but on a much smaller scale.
I have found *some* info on people comparing the two engines, however a lot of that information is largely out of date and quite a few things have changed since. Unity 2.5 is nearly out, and this means that we will be able to develop on windows and publish for BOTH windows and mac with the Indie version.
As I see it there are a couple of major feature differences. I understand that you have the source with TGEA, meaning anything is *technically* possible, but from what I've read some of it is a lot of work to implement.
If I miss anything please let me know. I'll start comparing the Indie versions, then the Pro/Commercial versions
Unity Indie vs TGEA Indie:
- TGEA is $295 USD, Unity Indie is $200 USD.
- TGEA gives you source code, Unity does not.
- TGEA has dynamic shadows from players and I believe you can get it working on other stuff with some effort. Unity Indie is restricted to blob shadows.
- Unity has PhysX, Joints and Ragdolls built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has Seamless terrains built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has much better documentation, tutorials and resources than Torque
- TGEA works alot nicer with external svn software.
- Unity has a much better scene editor
- Unity has a much better and more efficient art pipeline
Unity Pro vs TGEA Commercial:
- TGEA is $1495 USD, Unity Indie is $1499 USD.
- TGEA gives you source code, Unity does not.
- Unity seems to have all of the features that TGEA has
- Unity has self shadows and overall more shadow options (is this true)
- Unity has PhysX, Joints and Ragdolls built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has a much better
- Unity has much better documentation, tutorials and resources than Torque
- TGEA works alot nicer with external svn software.
- Unity has a much better scene editor
- Unity has a much better and more efficient art pipeline
It is a bit hard to compare since TGEA has the advantage of having the source, but I have included what is out of the box and not 'quickly and easy' to implement even with the source in TGEA.
Having the Source code can be good and bad. When you do have the source you CAN fix bugs yourself and implement other things which is good, however as you see with TGEA, this can mean the developers aren't particularly quick to release any fixes. When you don't have the source as with Unity, it is up to the engine developer to fix the bugs, something the Unity team apparently do pretty damn quickly - this of course will not be the case with all engine developers.
Let me know if I have missed anything or if there are any suggestions. I have to allegiance to either product (yet) so I am just putting it as I see it with what information I have gathered.
About the author
#2
They are both generic game engines (although Torques base is focused on FPS), so they both have the ability to make just about any type of game. With Torque you can do further optimization - but this can mean unnecessary work as well, especially if they don't keep their product up to date and free of bugs.
01/14/2009 (4:14 pm)
Yeah, optimization it clearly one advantage of having the source, it obviously depends what you require.They are both generic game engines (although Torques base is focused on FPS), so they both have the ability to make just about any type of game. With Torque you can do further optimization - but this can mean unnecessary work as well, especially if they don't keep their product up to date and free of bugs.
#3
01/14/2009 (9:04 pm)
TGEA is better than UNITY because you can make it do every unity thing it does and more just by searching the forums
#4
I wonder if one of the admins can give me access to the private forums just for a week or two so I can find out the truth about TGEA :P
01/14/2009 (9:08 pm)
Well I suppose that might be true, but since I can only see the public forums - how on earth can I know what resources the forums have?I wonder if one of the admins can give me access to the private forums just for a week or two so I can find out the truth about TGEA :P
#5
"Procedural Characters and Animation"
that is not a easy task i don't think any one has done it for tgea as for the rest tgea can do it all even streaming terrains from what i have read in non private forums/blogs. its just one thing i don't think anyone has done yet so you cant say they have done everything for tgea unless someone has done it then i don't need to say anymore.
staples said that other engine can do everything he/she needs even when i looked at those demos and found many bugs which put me off that engine so fast that i don't even want to look at it anymore. not only that in every demo besides the shadow one my computer seemed to lag which i have no clue why i have never lagged in a game with this computer unless i am online not offline. even when i lag online i don't lag as much as i was in the demos and i don't lag all the time ether its only here and there which is not my computers problem but the servers.
01/14/2009 (9:20 pm)
matthew in the private forums has someone done this what unity has done."Procedural Characters and Animation"
that is not a easy task i don't think any one has done it for tgea as for the rest tgea can do it all even streaming terrains from what i have read in non private forums/blogs. its just one thing i don't think anyone has done yet so you cant say they have done everything for tgea unless someone has done it then i don't need to say anymore.
staples said that other engine can do everything he/she needs even when i looked at those demos and found many bugs which put me off that engine so fast that i don't even want to look at it anymore. not only that in every demo besides the shadow one my computer seemed to lag which i have no clue why i have never lagged in a game with this computer unless i am online not offline. even when i lag online i don't lag as much as i was in the demos and i don't lag all the time ether its only here and there which is not my computers problem but the servers.
#6
I didn't lag in the demo's, and they were demo's showing off different parts, obviously not complete games with all of the features. For example the Avert Fate demo didn't have player shadows, but the engine supports both projected blob and dynamic self shadows.
There are glitches in the TGEA demo's as well, you can see where shadows incorrectly get clipped and other things. Some of these will be bugs, some of them will be features and extra work that didn't go into the system.
Either way I haven't seen any Unity bugs that would stop me choosing it, it is mostly the restriction of Indie features vs Pro features. So I need to see if TGEA can do everything I want before I make a decision.
01/14/2009 (9:29 pm)
If you are put of so easily with the bugs you found in those demo's I am surprised you are using TGEA! The impression I have got is that TGEA will almost certainly have more bugs.I didn't lag in the demo's, and they were demo's showing off different parts, obviously not complete games with all of the features. For example the Avert Fate demo didn't have player shadows, but the engine supports both projected blob and dynamic self shadows.
There are glitches in the TGEA demo's as well, you can see where shadows incorrectly get clipped and other things. Some of these will be bugs, some of them will be features and extra work that didn't go into the system.
Either way I haven't seen any Unity bugs that would stop me choosing it, it is mostly the restriction of Indie features vs Pro features. So I need to see if TGEA can do everything I want before I make a decision.
#7
maybe if someone other them me who has access to all this stuff can post. i don't have access ether but i have done research for over a month on this engine and i like everything so far. maybe once i buy it then i could help you some more i plan on finishing my last test soon more then likely less then 1 week as i already got most of it done and ready to put in the demo. i hope someone posts soon as it will not only help you with more info but me as well.
01/14/2009 (9:43 pm)
those bugs that you just said for tgea are common bugs and more then likely been fixed by someone else we just cant see those as they are put in other forums. its not just the bugs that put me off i seen other little graphic stuff i did not like but that could be just the people who made them but if you want to show off your engine you should take out all those bugs be for showing it not keeping them in there. one other thing is that you cant fix those bugs the owner of the engine has to fix them for you here people that see a bug will fix it there self and post that fix for the bug for others to use that's what gg is all about and why i like it.maybe if someone other them me who has access to all this stuff can post. i don't have access ether but i have done research for over a month on this engine and i like everything so far. maybe once i buy it then i could help you some more i plan on finishing my last test soon more then likely less then 1 week as i already got most of it done and ready to put in the demo. i hope someone posts soon as it will not only help you with more info but me as well.
#8
Yeah before I go ahead and purchase anything I really need:
- A list of known issues & bugs
- If there are any fixes to these bugs, official or otherwise.
- Find out what sort of tutorials/resources the private forums have
The thing is from what I have read I KNOW there are bugs and performance issues in TGEA 1.8 - however I have seen no official fixes for them (1.8.1 for example). And from what I have been reading it is unlikely there will even be a 1.8.1 since they are focusing in Torque 3D.
It's all well and good that if you have the source you can fix it yourself - but in torques case it seems to be more that you HAVE to fix it yourself (more work for you). Wheras without the source, Unity will fix bugs for you (and they seem pretty good at fixing any bugs from what I have seen).
There are two sides to having the source - it can actually be a disadvantage depending on who makes the engine. (E.g TGEA without the source would be a disaster).
01/14/2009 (9:51 pm)
Yeah before I go ahead and purchase anything I really need:
- A list of known issues & bugs
- If there are any fixes to these bugs, official or otherwise.
- Find out what sort of tutorials/resources the private forums have
The thing is from what I have read I KNOW there are bugs and performance issues in TGEA 1.8 - however I have seen no official fixes for them (1.8.1 for example). And from what I have been reading it is unlikely there will even be a 1.8.1 since they are focusing in Torque 3D.
It's all well and good that if you have the source you can fix it yourself - but in torques case it seems to be more that you HAVE to fix it yourself (more work for you). Wheras without the source, Unity will fix bugs for you (and they seem pretty good at fixing any bugs from what I have seen).
There are two sides to having the source - it can actually be a disadvantage depending on who makes the engine. (E.g TGEA without the source would be a disaster).
#9
Without the source code you are stuck with what you get. With it you can do so much more.
The documentation for Torque is really bad. There is not much around - alot of the links in the documentation area are invalid links. But once you get past the initial learning curve you will realise the the engine and the scripts are quite good. You just have to play with the code.
The forums are excellent - many people who write on the forums have gone through all the pains you have gone through.
The art pipeline is excellent - especially with Houdini3D and L3DT for terrains.
If you want to just create a game then Unity is for you - but if you want to create YOUR game, TGEA is the only product in my opinion.
01/15/2009 (4:26 am)
I think TGEA is far better. I do not intend to modify TGEA code to optimize the engine - but I do modify the engine to create my own types of objects.Without the source code you are stuck with what you get. With it you can do so much more.
The documentation for Torque is really bad. There is not much around - alot of the links in the documentation area are invalid links. But once you get past the initial learning curve you will realise the the engine and the scripts are quite good. You just have to play with the code.
The forums are excellent - many people who write on the forums have gone through all the pains you have gone through.
The art pipeline is excellent - especially with Houdini3D and L3DT for terrains.
If you want to just create a game then Unity is for you - but if you want to create YOUR game, TGEA is the only product in my opinion.
#10
01/15/2009 (7:06 am)
Unity is for mac, not for PC. I am a PC user and cant use it. TGEA is better. 
#11
just saying..
01/15/2009 (7:16 am)
Unity is for mac and pc, though.. it can only be developed on the mac right now. Next realease it will support Windows for development (v.2.5)just saying..
#12
Yes the 2.5 release will be out soon so that is a moot point and has nothing to do with whether TGEA is better or not. Please don't bother posting random comments if you don't actually know anything about unity.. and if you do thing TGEA is better, please explain why.
Obviously I expect biased opinions on both forums, but at least over at Unity they give reasons and detail about things!
sigh...
01/15/2009 (7:36 am)
Yes the 2.5 release will be out soon so that is a moot point and has nothing to do with whether TGEA is better or not. Please don't bother posting random comments if you don't actually know anything about unity.. and if you do thing TGEA is better, please explain why.
Obviously I expect biased opinions on both forums, but at least over at Unity they give reasons and detail about things!
sigh...
#13
I'm not sure your going to find exactly what your looking for. The basics are this.
1) TGEA has source and Unity doesn't.
2) IMO.. Unity seems to have fewer bugs/glitches.
3) TGEA has more features at a lower price. Unity costs more to match the feature list of TGEA.. for now.
4) TGEA community is bigger, Though Unity community is still a very good one.
.. I could keep listing things but I know you are aware of all this anyway. Your questions on the other forum were very good ones. I wish you luck on your decision, because I believe both engines are very good making it a hard choice.
01/15/2009 (7:47 am)
Staples..I'm not sure your going to find exactly what your looking for. The basics are this.
1) TGEA has source and Unity doesn't.
2) IMO.. Unity seems to have fewer bugs/glitches.
3) TGEA has more features at a lower price. Unity costs more to match the feature list of TGEA.. for now.
4) TGEA community is bigger, Though Unity community is still a very good one.
.. I could keep listing things but I know you are aware of all this anyway. Your questions on the other forum were very good ones. I wish you luck on your decision, because I believe both engines are very good making it a hard choice.
#14
Yeah I mean I know the general differences, I guess I'm more after specifics of what/how much work is required to get certain things working in Torque.
Perhaps I'm just not asking the right questions, I might start a thread with specific things I need to know!
01/15/2009 (4:51 pm)
Yeah I mean I know the general differences, I guess I'm more after specifics of what/how much work is required to get certain things working in Torque.
Perhaps I'm just not asking the right questions, I might start a thread with specific things I need to know!
#15
You don't need the commercial license for TGEA unless you're making a lot of money :) so really you're comparison becomes:
TGEA Indie $295 vs Unity $1499
and that's a big difference in cost to get comparable features, i've not used Unity before so can only comment on details I've heard.
- Unity has much nice editors than TGEA
- The are thousands of resources for TGE/TGEA so even if you can't find a resource that does exactly what you want you should be able to find example of similar things to use.
- Documentation wise TGEA has been lacking in the past but that's all changing with Michael at the helm it's coming along at a great pace and they're just starting to work on Video Tutorials www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/16017 so you can watch them and see.
- GG have said that there will be a 1.8.1 version, but that will be a bug fix release rather than adding any functionality.
So without knowing what you're after specifically then it's tough to compare, one thing nobody has mentioned so far is Torque3D though, which is heavily in the pipeline and is the next version of TGEA.
Whilst we don't know it's feature set yet we do know it will have greatly improved editors, example missions, superb documentation, support for 3rd part physics (not sure which but it'll be things like ODE, physX, etc).. have a look over at:
www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/15816 and
www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/15818
Yes it will cost more but I'll bet it'll still be less than the $1499 for Unity and will also include full source - personally I know where my money would be going if I were you.
01/16/2009 (4:05 am)
To add my opinion.You don't need the commercial license for TGEA unless you're making a lot of money :) so really you're comparison becomes:
TGEA Indie $295 vs Unity $1499
and that's a big difference in cost to get comparable features, i've not used Unity before so can only comment on details I've heard.
- Unity has much nice editors than TGEA
- The are thousands of resources for TGE/TGEA so even if you can't find a resource that does exactly what you want you should be able to find example of similar things to use.
- Documentation wise TGEA has been lacking in the past but that's all changing with Michael at the helm it's coming along at a great pace and they're just starting to work on Video Tutorials www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/16017 so you can watch them and see.
- GG have said that there will be a 1.8.1 version, but that will be a bug fix release rather than adding any functionality.
Quote:
I agree that no one should have to pay for bug fixes (within reason) and we will be rolling any appropriate bug fixes back into TGEA 1.8.X.
So without knowing what you're after specifically then it's tough to compare, one thing nobody has mentioned so far is Torque3D though, which is heavily in the pipeline and is the next version of TGEA.
Whilst we don't know it's feature set yet we do know it will have greatly improved editors, example missions, superb documentation, support for 3rd part physics (not sure which but it'll be things like ODE, physX, etc).. have a look over at:
www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/15816 and
www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/15818
Yes it will cost more but I'll bet it'll still be less than the $1499 for Unity and will also include full source - personally I know where my money would be going if I were you.
#16
The standard C4 License is $349, so a little more expensive than TGEA - however you get free updates for live, which is incredible. The only things it lacks at the moment are better physics and networking. Physics is due shortly in the next update, as well as seamless terrain stuff. Plus they already have working 3rd party physics with PhysX and I believe some or all of newtones, bullet and ODE.
Unfortunately GG are really shooting themselves in the foot with false marketing, poor documentations, poor forums - and I don't personally like the direction they are going. I can't get around the fact that everything to do with torque is just "messy" or "incomplete". You can see it in the recent website update, that is a clear reflection of what is going on, no testing etc.
Anyhow we probably won't go the unity path since C4 does most of that stuff anyway AND you get the source.
We are still looking at TGEA, but I am having a really hard time coming up with a reason why anyone would by TGEA instead of C4.
I know I am not the only one that feels this way, you look at the Unity or C4 forums and there are ex-torque people around, the impression they have is just a breath of fresh air. Torque is getting very old, I hope they do well with Torque 3D because they have some very tough competition.
----------------
"Documentation wise TGEA has been lacking in the past but that's all changing"
Honestly I've heard that too many times before, and now it is a case of "I'll believe it when I see it".. unfortunately.
"GG have said that there will be a 1.8.1 version, but that will be a bug fix release "
That is good to know, hopefully they come through! I guess 1.7.1 was pretty bug free in the end? Or was it?
01/16/2009 (5:53 am)
I should mention at this point that I have been looking around more and looking at the C4 Engine in detail. At the end of the day it gives me more power than TGEA, has extremely cleaner code, better documentation, and can do just about everything I need from what I have checked.The standard C4 License is $349, so a little more expensive than TGEA - however you get free updates for live, which is incredible. The only things it lacks at the moment are better physics and networking. Physics is due shortly in the next update, as well as seamless terrain stuff. Plus they already have working 3rd party physics with PhysX and I believe some or all of newtones, bullet and ODE.
Unfortunately GG are really shooting themselves in the foot with false marketing, poor documentations, poor forums - and I don't personally like the direction they are going. I can't get around the fact that everything to do with torque is just "messy" or "incomplete". You can see it in the recent website update, that is a clear reflection of what is going on, no testing etc.
Anyhow we probably won't go the unity path since C4 does most of that stuff anyway AND you get the source.
We are still looking at TGEA, but I am having a really hard time coming up with a reason why anyone would by TGEA instead of C4.
I know I am not the only one that feels this way, you look at the Unity or C4 forums and there are ex-torque people around, the impression they have is just a breath of fresh air. Torque is getting very old, I hope they do well with Torque 3D because they have some very tough competition.
----------------
"Documentation wise TGEA has been lacking in the past but that's all changing"
Honestly I've heard that too many times before, and now it is a case of "I'll believe it when I see it".. unfortunately.
"GG have said that there will be a 1.8.1 version, but that will be a bug fix release "
That is good to know, hopefully they come through! I guess 1.7.1 was pretty bug free in the end? Or was it?
#17
C4 has a damn good rendering engine. It's better than TGEA's at this point. A better lighting and shadow solution, being able to import Collada, easy to use Parallax maping, etc. Those are nice features.
To say that the only things it lacks though are better physics and networking, well that's just not accurate. One of the great things about Torque being such a mature engine is it has a lot of little features that were added to it over time. It has all the little engine polish features, where in C4 you'd have to implement some of them.
I do think C4 is a very viable engine, and if you plan on implementing third party networking, physics, etc then its a solid engine. It does have some issues with larger zones, and if you compare it with the current TGEA, it is going to require a lot more work to get in all of the same features. Right now, I consider TGEA to be a better engine as a result of that. When Torque3D comes out and the price gets hiked though, it will depend on the features of T3D and how far they hike the price. It could very well sway things in C4's favor. I don't think its there yet though.
01/16/2009 (6:52 am)
As a C4 and TGEA owner, I did want to comment on C4.C4 has a damn good rendering engine. It's better than TGEA's at this point. A better lighting and shadow solution, being able to import Collada, easy to use Parallax maping, etc. Those are nice features.
To say that the only things it lacks though are better physics and networking, well that's just not accurate. One of the great things about Torque being such a mature engine is it has a lot of little features that were added to it over time. It has all the little engine polish features, where in C4 you'd have to implement some of them.
I do think C4 is a very viable engine, and if you plan on implementing third party networking, physics, etc then its a solid engine. It does have some issues with larger zones, and if you compare it with the current TGEA, it is going to require a lot more work to get in all of the same features. Right now, I consider TGEA to be a better engine as a result of that. When Torque3D comes out and the price gets hiked though, it will depend on the features of T3D and how far they hike the price. It could very well sway things in C4's favor. I don't think its there yet though.
#18
If your target is Windows, then you must not forget that C4 is purely OpenGL 2+, so you will cut a considerable userbase on the windows end.
As for the bugfixing: The bugfixing interest in the past has not been that good actually. The focus always seems to be onto minor versions with new features instead of subminors that finally do what their minor or even earlier minors were meant to do.
TGB is on 1.7.4 and is still carrying around bugs from 1.0.x, 1.1.x and 1.5.0 which require workarounds or are complete showstoppers. Now its beeing talked about Torque2D on that end.
01/16/2009 (6:53 am)
Benefit of Unity / Torque: DirectXIf your target is Windows, then you must not forget that C4 is purely OpenGL 2+, so you will cut a considerable userbase on the windows end.
As for the bugfixing: The bugfixing interest in the past has not been that good actually. The focus always seems to be onto minor versions with new features instead of subminors that finally do what their minor or even earlier minors were meant to do.
TGB is on 1.7.4 and is still carrying around bugs from 1.0.x, 1.1.x and 1.5.0 which require workarounds or are complete showstoppers. Now its beeing talked about Torque2D on that end.
#19
As far as Unity 2.5 and Windows is concerned, I would rather work with it on its native platform. Just as I'd prefer to use Torque with Windows, I'd prefer to use Unity on a Mac.
I'm not abandoning Torque entirely, our team still has one project that we're doing with it. I'm porting some projects to the iPhone and with the per-dev per-title licensing with Torque, it's just not as economically feasible after a few projects. Plus, the Torque licenses don't seem to make accomodations for free software distributed through the app store, so the per-title per-dev fees would seemingly still apply. There is a subtle hint in there for you, GG.
C4 has an odd licensing scheme, because they define "developer" in a very narrow sense. Only people working with the source need a license, scripters do not, plus they drop the license by $100 per developer after licenses. If you have used Kismet (for Unreal), you'll like the C4 scripting tool.
Also, I like that C4 runs on the PS3 if you can possibly get a publisher (good luck with that). The offset that Torque has here is that you can publish on the 360 with something closer to actual Torque than TorqueX (which is OK, but entirely C# based). Unity works on the Wii for Wiiware and retail games, but again the problem isn't so much getting your game together as it is getting an actual devkit.
As for Torque, I think it's a pretty good engine, but a poor product. The tools need some work, the documentation has improved, but it's still unimpressive for how long the engine has been out. As old as Torque is, you'd think the documentation would be comprehensive. With their new efforts in that direction, maybe they'll be awesome at it, but they're not there yet. With the impending price increases, the financial balance between it and Unity will need to be re-evaluated.
One thing which always must be considered is the ramp-up time, if you have people familiar with one toolset or another, it's you might be better off going with that choice instead of one that's more financially are technically attractive.
01/16/2009 (7:09 am)
Next week, I will have my MacBook and Unity. I can give you some initial impressions then, just IM me. From what I've seen, the Unity asset pipeline and tools are much, much better and I like that it uses C# and some bastardized form of Javascript, but I'm pretty comfortable with TorqueScript now. Spending $1,600 on the platform to do the work was going to happen anyway, so I don't factor that into the cost comparison.As far as Unity 2.5 and Windows is concerned, I would rather work with it on its native platform. Just as I'd prefer to use Torque with Windows, I'd prefer to use Unity on a Mac.
I'm not abandoning Torque entirely, our team still has one project that we're doing with it. I'm porting some projects to the iPhone and with the per-dev per-title licensing with Torque, it's just not as economically feasible after a few projects. Plus, the Torque licenses don't seem to make accomodations for free software distributed through the app store, so the per-title per-dev fees would seemingly still apply. There is a subtle hint in there for you, GG.
C4 has an odd licensing scheme, because they define "developer" in a very narrow sense. Only people working with the source need a license, scripters do not, plus they drop the license by $100 per developer after licenses. If you have used Kismet (for Unreal), you'll like the C4 scripting tool.
Also, I like that C4 runs on the PS3 if you can possibly get a publisher (good luck with that). The offset that Torque has here is that you can publish on the 360 with something closer to actual Torque than TorqueX (which is OK, but entirely C# based). Unity works on the Wii for Wiiware and retail games, but again the problem isn't so much getting your game together as it is getting an actual devkit.
As for Torque, I think it's a pretty good engine, but a poor product. The tools need some work, the documentation has improved, but it's still unimpressive for how long the engine has been out. As old as Torque is, you'd think the documentation would be comprehensive. With their new efforts in that direction, maybe they'll be awesome at it, but they're not there yet. With the impending price increases, the financial balance between it and Unity will need to be re-evaluated.
One thing which always must be considered is the ramp-up time, if you have people familiar with one toolset or another, it's you might be better off going with that choice instead of one that's more financially are technically attractive.
#20
Also after the next update C4 will do proper seamless zones (a.k.a WoW etc), this is in the roadmap. They just added Voxel Terrain which is very impressive.
The only justifiable thing I can think of that you can say is better in TGEA, is the networking. The C4 roadmap is to be taken quite seriously.
After the next update in C4 which is currently being working on C4 will support rigidbody physics and seamless terrain. And if the existing quality of everything in C4 is anything to go buy, I am willing to bet that these will also be implemented at a better quality than TGEA. Seamless Voxel Terrain sounds very exciting.
Marc:
I don't see how you cut out any users on windows? OpenGL is crossplatform, also if you do some research it is hands down a better rendering engine. So I don't see how you could say OpenGL is a limitation? Am I missing something here, please correct me if I am wrong?
The C4 developer seems to really know what he is doing with rendering, it would seem he is able to get better quality rendering and better performance than you will get in TGEA.
There is alot of information about TGEA that I don't have access to since it is private, and the public information is just unavailable or outdated - so if I am missing some "magic" stuff thats going on in the private forums, PLEASE let me know.
It is very difficult to make an informed decision about TGEA.
01/16/2009 (7:13 am)
J.C.Smith: Could you give me some specifics of the lots of little features added? It's all well and good saying this, but a lot of that stuff is outdated, and even C4's community has come up with alot of plugins/sample stuff already.Also after the next update C4 will do proper seamless zones (a.k.a WoW etc), this is in the roadmap. They just added Voxel Terrain which is very impressive.
The only justifiable thing I can think of that you can say is better in TGEA, is the networking. The C4 roadmap is to be taken quite seriously.
After the next update in C4 which is currently being working on C4 will support rigidbody physics and seamless terrain. And if the existing quality of everything in C4 is anything to go buy, I am willing to bet that these will also be implemented at a better quality than TGEA. Seamless Voxel Terrain sounds very exciting.
Marc:
I don't see how you cut out any users on windows? OpenGL is crossplatform, also if you do some research it is hands down a better rendering engine. So I don't see how you could say OpenGL is a limitation? Am I missing something here, please correct me if I am wrong?
The C4 developer seems to really know what he is doing with rendering, it would seem he is able to get better quality rendering and better performance than you will get in TGEA.
There is alot of information about TGEA that I don't have access to since it is private, and the public information is just unavailable or outdated - so if I am missing some "magic" stuff thats going on in the private forums, PLEASE let me know.
It is very difficult to make an informed decision about TGEA.
Torque Owner JesseL
Pyrotronics-Games