TGEA 1.8 Evaluation
by Staples · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 01/14/2009 (5:53 am) · 15 replies
I have a small team currently evaluating a few game engines for a project we are working on.
TGEA is a definite possibility and some of us have worked with the engine before.
I am having ALOT of trouble finding out information about TGEA 1.8 - I'm not talking about marketing material, but real information such as:
- TGEA 1.8 vs 1.7 what's the difference?
- There seems to be some issues with performance and bugs in TGEA 1.8, what is the status of this, what are the known issues?
Also.. is it possible to get access to the private TGEA developer forums for a short time, it is really hard to evaluate the product with the limited posts in the public section. I have read a bit of negative feedback so need to see what the reality of the situation is.
I am also a bit worried with Torque 3D, and even mentions of Torque 3D in 2009 - from what I understand TGEA 1.8 is largely a rushed/unfinished/buggy stage, and I can see issues being ignored if Torque 3D steps into the spotlight.
Appreciate any feedback!
TGEA is a definite possibility and some of us have worked with the engine before.
I am having ALOT of trouble finding out information about TGEA 1.8 - I'm not talking about marketing material, but real information such as:
- TGEA 1.8 vs 1.7 what's the difference?
- There seems to be some issues with performance and bugs in TGEA 1.8, what is the status of this, what are the known issues?
Also.. is it possible to get access to the private TGEA developer forums for a short time, it is really hard to evaluate the product with the limited posts in the public section. I have read a bit of negative feedback so need to see what the reality of the situation is.
I am also a bit worried with Torque 3D, and even mentions of Torque 3D in 2009 - from what I understand TGEA 1.8 is largely a rushed/unfinished/buggy stage, and I can see issues being ignored if Torque 3D steps into the spotlight.
Appreciate any feedback!
About the author
#2
I believe 1.8 is fairly stable, and have been using it for a while now...
I used 1.7 also and I haven't had any more issues with 1.8 than 1.7..
I don't know the actual features change list , but it's probably listed in the blogs about the release...
I'm happy with it so far, but you'd need to be more specific about what you need to know....
btw I don't work for GG I've just been an indie/hobbiest working with the engine for about a year and a half....
I don't think of the 1.8 release as being rushed or buggy, but everyone has their own opinion.... the engine feels alot less buggy than this new site does.
01/14/2009 (12:20 pm)
Every engine has it's bugs...I believe 1.8 is fairly stable, and have been using it for a while now...
I used 1.7 also and I haven't had any more issues with 1.8 than 1.7..
I don't know the actual features change list , but it's probably listed in the blogs about the release...
I'm happy with it so far, but you'd need to be more specific about what you need to know....
btw I don't work for GG I've just been an indie/hobbiest working with the engine for about a year and a half....
I don't think of the 1.8 release as being rushed or buggy, but everyone has their own opinion.... the engine feels alot less buggy than this new site does.
#3
the 1.8 has performance problems big time i hear and they took out allot of stuff that is not in 1.7 release but i think they added new stuff in it. me i think i going to download the 1.8 i have a very very good computer. i think performance is not going to hurt me much unless the stuff they took out was good stuff then i might go with 1.7.1. there is some other good stuff about 1.7.1 is that there stuff that is already made to help you out in the developer store i don't talking about 3d items but programs and stuff to make things easy for you and you only have to buy the stuff you need for your game.
i am going to buy the engine to make a full game and sell it. i then hope to have made money to buy one of the high end engines such as HeroEngine.
01/14/2009 (1:43 pm)
well 1.8 was made mostly for mac users not Microsoft i don't own the engine yet but will soon. i have done allot of research which its very hard to find info on it as this forum is limited at what you can say as they got some private forums looks like where everyone posts. this engine is best for the price and for starting out as there are those that can help you if problems you might have.the 1.8 has performance problems big time i hear and they took out allot of stuff that is not in 1.7 release but i think they added new stuff in it. me i think i going to download the 1.8 i have a very very good computer. i think performance is not going to hurt me much unless the stuff they took out was good stuff then i might go with 1.7.1. there is some other good stuff about 1.7.1 is that there stuff that is already made to help you out in the developer store i don't talking about 3d items but programs and stuff to make things easy for you and you only have to buy the stuff you need for your game.
i am going to buy the engine to make a full game and sell it. i then hope to have made money to buy one of the high end engines such as HeroEngine.
#4
Extremely hard to make an informed decision :(
01/14/2009 (3:22 pm)
Thanks guys. I understand every engine has bugs, but it is so damn hard to find out any information about 1.8, it just seems everything is quiet around here - I have no way of knowing how serious the bugs are or what is really going on with everything locked away in private forums.Extremely hard to make an informed decision :(
#5
they like having all there info hidden me i think its a bad thing maybe just keep code work that people have done privet but not everything else that people need. i have found code though so not all code is hidden and i have gone though many many topics and posts to find them so i know there is something out there that i just cant see. maybe one day they will change the way things are done here but it don't look like anytime soon.
01/14/2009 (4:19 pm)
yes i feel what your going though i think the same there is like hardly any info i don't even know how they sell there product. i need a engine i don't want to make my own its just a waste of time making a engine that you want when there is already a engine out there that can already do what you want it to. i have done quite allot of testing with the demo of 1.7.1 and finishing up my last test with it but there is still allot of info missing but i think i can trust it.they like having all there info hidden me i think its a bad thing maybe just keep code work that people have done privet but not everything else that people need. i have found code though so not all code is hidden and i have gone though many many topics and posts to find them so i know there is something out there that i just cant see. maybe one day they will change the way things are done here but it don't look like anytime soon.
#6
Their direction is pretty confusing! I don't suppose anyone has looked into the C4 engine? It's around the same price, you get the source - it seems to be better render wise, documentation, support, but not as good physics support.. no idea what multiplayer is like either.
01/14/2009 (4:42 pm)
Their direction is pretty confusing! I don't suppose anyone has looked into the C4 engine? It's around the same price, you get the source - it seems to be better render wise, documentation, support, but not as good physics support.. no idea what multiplayer is like either.
#7
there are good things as well that unity don't have that is that this engine is some what popular and cheap which means allot own it. that means that there is allot of code work already done to edit the engine to the way you want it for your game without having to make your own code.
ok just went though c4 engine real quick its set up sucks as its not well organized unless you want to spend time working with non organized program. i would not go with it but your going to spend to much time every day with it just to get things to work the way you want it. that's why i said no to it and why i did not look into it to much. i gone though 200 engines so i can spot things out easy by now. it is also not a engine just for games gg engines are made for game only.
unity is ok though if that is what you want for your game it will be much easier to use then gg engines but if one thing is not int here that you must have well forget it. i mostly just like the import of 3d program files its what gg should of done long ago and this new torque 3d might make it to that point i hope. i need torque as if i don't make good money off first game then i will have to make another easy game till i can afford to buy the one engine i like over all engines HeroEngine that's why i am quite set on tgea now as its got everything you need and if it don't put what it don't have in.
this is just my point of view on tgea and looking though so many engines i not to coder ether but i will learn from the people that own gg engines as that's one thing i lack everything else i can do but code. :P that is why i am doing tests in the demo as well to find as much info that i cant find about the engine and exploring it my self but the demo is limited which is fine.
there are bugs in this engine just like any engine and there are those that have fixed the bugs there self's all you have to do is fined the fixes for them. most people will post fixes for the engine all you need to do is research which must be done to make a game. if you know how to research you will have no problems. i not saying just research for stuff for the engine i am saying research other games as well even if they are not made from gg engines you will learn allot from doing that like i have.
i spent 3 years just researching games i could spend my entire life researching games that is not what i want to do though. this is one step i have taken to start making my game i advise you take some steps first the engine is the last peace i need to start working. i have gone though 3d programs upgraded my computer and done so many other things and engine is the very final one. there will be nothing left but build build build.
i have the money to do some of the steps i have done you might not but i made these steps to be able to move faster. this engine is not going to speed things up though as i have to first set it up to what i need then after that it will be easy. that is one thing good about gg if you make it what you want it to be not like these other engines. then again you might say why would i like heroengine so much though that is because its got stuff that has never been done be for besides that engine. its got so much stuff in it you might not need another engine i have talked with the company so i might know little more about that one then some others. its the only one i have personal talks with its employers i did not do that with any engine but that one as i seen what it can do.
i hope some of this info will help you get started it might be long to read. i think it will be well worth your time as i have done more stuff then you have your just looking at engine sounds like i look at everything not just a engine. there is more stuff then a engine to build a game just to let you know.
01/14/2009 (6:33 pm)
i looked into it some but not much i have looked at over 200 engines now the unity engine you found. i did not find that one so i looking into it now looks good but ya not having source is bad. i like how you can import 3d files of those programs not 3d files of GG own set up program which is .dts files. PhysX you said you like i don't know why it limits you to allot of stuff and gg in there next version which is called torque 3d they will be adding a much better thing then PhysX.there are good things as well that unity don't have that is that this engine is some what popular and cheap which means allot own it. that means that there is allot of code work already done to edit the engine to the way you want it for your game without having to make your own code.
ok just went though c4 engine real quick its set up sucks as its not well organized unless you want to spend time working with non organized program. i would not go with it but your going to spend to much time every day with it just to get things to work the way you want it. that's why i said no to it and why i did not look into it to much. i gone though 200 engines so i can spot things out easy by now. it is also not a engine just for games gg engines are made for game only.
unity is ok though if that is what you want for your game it will be much easier to use then gg engines but if one thing is not int here that you must have well forget it. i mostly just like the import of 3d program files its what gg should of done long ago and this new torque 3d might make it to that point i hope. i need torque as if i don't make good money off first game then i will have to make another easy game till i can afford to buy the one engine i like over all engines HeroEngine that's why i am quite set on tgea now as its got everything you need and if it don't put what it don't have in.
this is just my point of view on tgea and looking though so many engines i not to coder ether but i will learn from the people that own gg engines as that's one thing i lack everything else i can do but code. :P that is why i am doing tests in the demo as well to find as much info that i cant find about the engine and exploring it my self but the demo is limited which is fine.
there are bugs in this engine just like any engine and there are those that have fixed the bugs there self's all you have to do is fined the fixes for them. most people will post fixes for the engine all you need to do is research which must be done to make a game. if you know how to research you will have no problems. i not saying just research for stuff for the engine i am saying research other games as well even if they are not made from gg engines you will learn allot from doing that like i have.
i spent 3 years just researching games i could spend my entire life researching games that is not what i want to do though. this is one step i have taken to start making my game i advise you take some steps first the engine is the last peace i need to start working. i have gone though 3d programs upgraded my computer and done so many other things and engine is the very final one. there will be nothing left but build build build.
i have the money to do some of the steps i have done you might not but i made these steps to be able to move faster. this engine is not going to speed things up though as i have to first set it up to what i need then after that it will be easy. that is one thing good about gg if you make it what you want it to be not like these other engines. then again you might say why would i like heroengine so much though that is because its got stuff that has never been done be for besides that engine. its got so much stuff in it you might not need another engine i have talked with the company so i might know little more about that one then some others. its the only one i have personal talks with its employers i did not do that with any engine but that one as i seen what it can do.
i hope some of this info will help you get started it might be long to read. i think it will be well worth your time as i have done more stuff then you have your just looking at engine sounds like i look at everything not just a engine. there is more stuff then a engine to build a game just to let you know.
#8
Personally I am not holding my breath for Torque3D - I think it will be quite rushed and buggy to begin with, also they are raising the cost. If it costs $1000, then I would not hesitate to get Unity Pro instead.
I understand it is quite nice to have the source - but at the end of the day IF you can do everything you need to with Unity, then the source has no advantage.
So far I have not seen anything that I would need the source for in Unity.
01/14/2009 (6:41 pm)
Yeah C4 seems like it is heading in the right direction, but it is still a pretty new engine. In a few years I think it will be a real contender.Personally I am not holding my breath for Torque3D - I think it will be quite rushed and buggy to begin with, also they are raising the cost. If it costs $1000, then I would not hesitate to get Unity Pro instead.
I understand it is quite nice to have the source - but at the end of the day IF you can do everything you need to with Unity, then the source has no advantage.
So far I have not seen anything that I would need the source for in Unity.
#9
01/14/2009 (8:00 pm)
then Unity is the right engine for you i not here to decide what engine you should pick. i picked my own engine for what is right for me you should do the same. if unity has everything you need then go with it but look into it allot more be for fully deciding. look at other sites people might have look at videos in youtube anything you can find to make your very final saying. once you buy a engine you should stick with it all the way you don't want to waste money. i not even saying unity is a bad engine i looked at it and i think its a very good engine your deciding on but i only looked at there site.
#10
Just quite difficult to do!
I have talked to someone over at unity who has alot of tgea experience, so I might start a new thread here to make a comprehensive list about TGEA. This would help others trying to find the same information as well.
01/14/2009 (8:11 pm)
Yeah fair enough - I am still undecided between unity and tgea. I know of some of the restrictions with unity, however I am trying to find out the restrictions, bugs, etc with TGEA at the moment. Just quite difficult to do!
I have talked to someone over at unity who has alot of tgea experience, so I might start a new thread here to make a comprehensive list about TGEA. This would help others trying to find the same information as well.
#11
sounds good that your going to list of the good and bad i would like to see it and try out those demos i only messed with them for less then 30 min and found so many bugs. it could just be the people that made those or there web player who knows but the game is not a web player but like i said it might be from the 2 team fast building aspect.
01/14/2009 (9:05 pm)
hmm i have just tried there lighting demo, tropical paradise demo and the game avert fate there are major bugs in the avert fate but that could be just because they built that real fast with a 2 man team. but the tropical paradise has a bug in the water i found. as for the lighting not really a bug in there but i did not like one thing in there with the lamp.sounds good that your going to list of the good and bad i would like to see it and try out those demos i only messed with them for less then 30 min and found so many bugs. it could just be the people that made those or there web player who knows but the game is not a web player but like i said it might be from the 2 team fast building aspect.
#12
That light demo was still more impressive than anything I have seen from torque, and it was running as a web-app which I believe limits some of the features they use.
Does anyone know how big the bug list/known issues list is for TGEA 1.8?
01/14/2009 (9:18 pm)
Yeah I'm not sure what version those demo's were made in or how old they are, I saw some bugs here and there as well.That light demo was still more impressive than anything I have seen from torque, and it was running as a web-app which I believe limits some of the features they use.
Does anyone know how big the bug list/known issues list is for TGEA 1.8?
#13
1.8 will seem to run slower then 1.7 or eariler versions of TGEA because it has fences enabled to keep the cpu and gpu in check with each other. I think this was more done to fix afew bugs and any Mac issues that came up. But overall its going to end up with a smoother game, just maybe not as fast as the older versions.
Its hard to give out any type of bug list or known issues mainly because there is not one. Most people only ever use a fraction of what TGEA offers since the engine is so diverse and you have access to the source code.
01/17/2009 (6:35 am)
TGEA 1.8 is still a fairly new release and focused mainly on bug fixs from 1.7.1 and Mac support.1.8 will seem to run slower then 1.7 or eariler versions of TGEA because it has fences enabled to keep the cpu and gpu in check with each other. I think this was more done to fix afew bugs and any Mac issues that came up. But overall its going to end up with a smoother game, just maybe not as fast as the older versions.
Its hard to give out any type of bug list or known issues mainly because there is not one. Most people only ever use a fraction of what TGEA offers since the engine is so diverse and you have access to the source code.
#14
tgea 1.8 is ok. Things like:
Heightmap imports
Vehicle speedometers
Theora video
Are broken and don't work, or work improperly.
People keep talking about 1.8 being slower than 1.7, but personally, I haven't noticed it. Wether tgea is a good match for your game or not depends on the type of game you are making. It's a solid engine. A few bugs, but nothing a good coder can't decipher and fix.
01/17/2009 (2:14 pm)
Staples, tgea 1.8 is ok. Things like:
Heightmap imports
Vehicle speedometers
Theora video
Are broken and don't work, or work improperly.
People keep talking about 1.8 being slower than 1.7, but personally, I haven't noticed it. Wether tgea is a good match for your game or not depends on the type of game you are making. It's a solid engine. A few bugs, but nothing a good coder can't decipher and fix.
#15
As Mike mention a few issues, the only one that effect me is terrain hightmap imports. From my early impressions im actually very impressed with TGEA1.8, and have just finished testing it with every computer i have here, TGE1.8 runs most consistently across a wide range of hardware. (no Mac testing as the only MAC i have is an OLD dinosaur with a powerPC-G3 and System 7 OS who nearly never is turned on).
01/17/2009 (3:37 pm)
I can not comment on TGEA1.8 being slower then 1.7 because i opted to NOT use TGEA until just a few days ago, and went right for 1.8 as from what i read it is the basic backbone for T3D- im expecting this means that all future engine upgrades will be smooth and easy.As Mike mention a few issues, the only one that effect me is terrain hightmap imports. From my early impressions im actually very impressed with TGEA1.8, and have just finished testing it with every computer i have here, TGE1.8 runs most consistently across a wide range of hardware. (no Mac testing as the only MAC i have is an OLD dinosaur with a powerPC-G3 and System 7 OS who nearly never is turned on).
Torque Owner Andy Rollins
ZDay Game
Both TGEA 1.7.1 and 1.8 have quite a few bugs in them so which ever version you choose to take expect to spend a fair chunk of time debugging code and then hunting around for fixes. There are also one or two elements that are left as just stubbed routines that just haven't been written.
A fair few people have commented on poor performance with 1.8 (my team included)with the new GFX2 and opengl in 1.8 so for the moment we are sticking with 1.7.1 until there is a bug release for 1.8
Whether there will be a point release i.e. TGEA 1.8.1 we don't know for sure but hopefully there will be. There won't be further development on TGEA though and GG have stated that it is now complete as far as features are concerned.
The future is with Torque 3D which they are currently working on and it appears to be for a 2009 release but also given their comments could cost a lot more than a TGEA license... so we're all waiting to see what happens here.