TGEA 1.8 and Houdini 9.5 - Import Problem

#1 Interesting.... I had this same issue with 1.8 however, I did not consider it being the models, I was using Torsion and figured it was just Torsion. But come to think of it, the new project has no models created in Houdini. I will try and export that model out again and see. I too had exported that and looked at it in Showtool. If I have time I will try it today.

Edit: BTW. You are using a different version of Houdini than I am. You are using the daily builds? I am using the last production version 9.5.303. You can expect to find issues in the daily builds.

#2 Randy,

Thanks for the reply.

Houdini was crashing a lot, so in my process of debugging the problem, I installed the latest build. As it turned out, the latest Nvidia driver was the issue. If I see other issues, I will reinstall the production release version.

I will be interested to hear what results you get.

Also, I will try the import with TGEA 1.7.1.

#3 Same results with TGEA 1.7.1

However, I was able to import the object into TGE 1.5.2 with no apparent problems.

Hmmm...

#4 I sent an email to GG Support.

Ron

#5 I can not reproduce that problem you are mentioning. Works fine for me. I also had problems with the last version of Houdini crashing and was on an even older version. Below are my specs.. You can compare and see what the differences are.

I did however get the message about certain objects not being inspector data. Would love to understand what that means. I have had a lot of issues with Nvidia with these new cards, but the 180.48 driver seems to have calmed it down some.


1. Vista Ultimate 64 8GB Q9550
2. 2- BFG Nvidia GTX-280 1GB (SLI)
3. November 2008 DirectX SDK running in retail version
4. Nvidia Drivers 180.48

#6 I responded to your e-mail and recommend posting on the Houdini forums at SideFX as well to keep as many eyeballs on your issue as possible. I'll try to play with Houdini in my spare time and figure out if I'm seeing anything I can replicate.

#7 @ David: I have a the same message in the Houdini forums also. Thanks for the reply.

@ Randy: the main dif in systems is the your dual vid cards. It is interesting that you are not having an issue importing the dts file.

I will try Houdini 9.5.303 and see what I get.

ROn

#8 Ron are you running TGEA in debug mode? I get the following error in Debug placing the ring, but not in Release. And it does crash out just like you are talking about.

Tried to get the object for item 76, which is not InspectorData!
Fatal: (f:\torque\tgea_1.8\trunk\engine\source\scenegraph\sceneobject.cpp @ 622) Bad object box!

Also, while in release turn on Polysoup and then run into the ring. You will get stuck in the middle. So the bounding box is not right. It looks square and correct in Showtool.

I tried creating a custom bounds box and the same result. But it may be because I did not turn it into poly with triangles. Gotta run will try later..

#9 @ David: I have a the same message in the Houdini forums also. Thanks for the reply.

@ Randy: the main dif in systems is the your dual vid cards. It is interesting that you are not having an issue importing the dts file.

I will try Houdini 9.5.303 and see what I get.

ROn

#10 No luck with 9.5.303 either...

@ Randy: Did you try the same sample file from the Houdini help as i listed above? Also, TGEA 1.8? or 1.8 Beta?

#11 Ok, Over at the Houdini Forums, DrFrankenRex suggested I try using the Game Release build instead of the Debug build. And it worked...

So while the issue may not be resolved, I do have a working solution(fingers crossed).

I consider this matter solved for me at this time. (Mr Murphy may have other thoughts on the matter :-p)

Ron Lindsey

#12 Yea, but should not be a difference between release and debug. There is still an issue with the bounding box and I am about to start converting a lot of models with Houdini, so if I run into issues will post a problem report with Houdini.

#13 Hmm.....

Let's see; works in TGE 1.5.2, but not in TGEA. This sounds like a 'TGEA' specific bug and it might be better to direct your questions in the TGEA section of the Forums?

I do not think the DTS or DTSPlus! SDK has changed since 1.5.2 to TGEA 1.7+......so, logically, it doesn't seem likely the DTS shape is causing the assertion error, unless something has changed. GG employees, please step in now...lol, with some concrete answers??!! Of course, there may be some Houdini-specific ROP reason for this...not sure; have you tried any other DTS shapes outside Apprentice HD in TGEA 1.7+??

This, to me, sounds like another funky 'render pipeline' issue....as I have yet to see any 'Decal::' objects in TGEAwhatever yet, and have asked if this was intended or not possible in TGEA? I have not heard any 'official' answer back, I think it might be a good idea to keep trying from that direction.

Why does the debug build crash the engine and not the release version?? What is so important in deBug.exe that it fails, but not important enough for the release engine to fail?? Those are the main questions here, not what 'might' be wrong with the ROP in Apprentice HD......

....keep the feedback coming...I don't use TGEA; so to me, this is a non issue for the artist and more for the coders to look at.....sorry!

#14 Well I think you are missing some info, and I will try to fill you in.

Quote:Works in TGE 1.5.2 but not in TGEA...

Well, no one said that. What was said is it does not work in TGEA 1.8. There is no issue with TGEA 1.7, or at least I did not have an issue, but I am running a modified 1.7 with PhysX. So if its a bounding issue, it may not be noticed.

Quote:I do not think the DTS or DTSPlus! SDK has changed since 1.5.2 to TGEA 1.7+......so, logically, it doesn't seem likely the DTS shape is causing the assertion error, unless something has changed.

Probably true, then again doesn't rule out the exporter being changed and improperly writing those DTS files.

Quote:Of course, there may be some Houdini-specific ROP reason for this...not sure; have you tried any other DTS shapes outside Apprentice HD in TGEA 1.7+??

Hmmm.... Yep. Lets see, there is the orc, forge soldier, buggy, towers everything opened in the demo files? Need I go on:)

Quote:
Why does the debug build crash the engine and not the release version?? What is so important in deBug.exe that it fails, but not important enough for the release engine to fail?? Those are the main questions here, not what 'might' be wrong with the ROP in Apprentice HD....

I don't think anyone has determined it does NOT fail in release. Only that it does not crash when placing the object. It could very well cause raytracing issues later, or cause collision problems in Release. Wait, I did mention that. Run into the Ring and you get stuck in the middle in Release, but it doesn't crash. ok, I think I just identified an issue with Release as well...


I agree, this does sound like an issue for the coders, and since I am a coder and not an artists that may be what interests me more. I think the important thing is like David mentioned.

1. Determine if Houdini has an issue with the exporter.

2. Keep a lot of eyes on the issue to help pinpoint the problem.

3. If Houdini has not changed their exporter, then GG and Houdini need to talk, as this is sold as a collaborative product.

I think this is the correct place for now, as it seems to be Houdini related, specifically exporter and not TGEA.

#15 Update:

There was an update to the Houdini Torque SOP.. About the time I started having issues. But I was integrating PhysX at the time and figured the problem was Torsion or the PhysX (interpretation, my screwup).

Thursday, November 13, 2008
Houdini 9.5.289: The Torque ROP now also takes inputs like the other output drivers.

Does this mean that you must setup your exports differently now to export models in Houdini?

#16 Solution found!

When exporting create your own bounding box, then under the Torque Render node select Bounds, use custom bounds and for the bounds node select your own bounds box. Then render and presto! No more crashing. Seems there is an issue with the Houdini exporter that is improperly writing the bound box. Not sure what it's doing as the box looks fine in Showtool, but definitely something wrong. I am not a graphics programmer (yet), but just curious if the normals could be flipped in the box causing the issue (or if that even maters for the bounding box).

Here is something I created for testing. Created my own bounding box and exported. no crashing, no errors. I also tried exporting with letting Houdini create the bounding boxes and it crashed.

mag-tac.com/tempfiles/scope.dts

Let me know if this works for ya.

Edit: Houdini BUG report turned in, and they are looking at it. So hopefully we will get a solution soon.

#17 Good job Randy. I am seeing the same issues that you described.

Also, when I tested the dts in TGE 1.5 I used the Release build exe. This is why it appeared to work.

I am encouraged to see that the issue is being zeroed in.

#18 FYI... You must be hitting refresh after you post a message. That is what is causing the double posts:) Instead of refreshing, just click the thread link above:)

Later...

#19 I'm betting that the collision bounds is the reason that I'm not seeing it with the simple shapes I've been creating to test. I've been so used to creating my own collision bounds in Lightwave that I was automatically doing it. I'll play with this a little more when I get some time to try to isolate it further.

#20 Thanks David. Yea, I figured it was better to create my own anyway. Probably why I only saw it on just a few of my models.

Let us know if you find anything else.