Homeland Security: Protecting our ... interests?

#81 When it comes to consipracies and this terrorism thing, the shitty thing is, who here can check ALL of these things:
1) works at the CIA, NSA, FBI, etc...
2) helped draft the homeland security bill
3) is working on that TIA thing
4) is the president
5) is a congressman
6) is a muslim fundamentalist
7) is an expert on bioterrorism
8) is part of "the shadow government", or at least has physical proof they do/don't exist
10) knows all future events

The list goes on.

We will never know the whole story, that is the only given. Really, a single person can only know so much in a short amount of time. That is what things like investigative reporting are for. That is why police cases aren't solved in a day. You can't jump to conclusions. You pretty much have to make a compromise. There is some sort of dirty dealing/corruption, all the time. There will always be ulterior motives behind politics. There will always be candidates who don't deserve thier jobs. Public figures will always cover up thier personal lives, to some degree (who wouldn't?). But the chances of a vast assault on all human freedom by an evil conspiracy happening are low. Things won't be perfect until each and every one of us is perfect.

#82 If everyone is monitoring Americans, and everyone else is monitoring the monitors, who's monitoring the data being returned from all those Alien anal probes?

Maybe I'll go ask the soldier on the street corner.

#83 "... and saw just how inept the govt would be at anything even approaching a cover-up or world domination."

Heh. Too true.

I'd have to agree with Ted. Once you've seen the inner workings of the government (working with or for them) these kinds of theories make you chuckle. The government can barely keep itself afloat financially, keep a solid workforce, or even communicate properly through internal channels.

Being ex-military myself, I've seen how life is in a structured environment. You are forced to take responsibility for your actions. Period. Many people can't deal with that. Most of the people I've come across that got in trouble were the guys who couldn't let go of their high school mentality and/or felt the need to challenge authority. Essentially, they refused to grow up.

After serving in two conflicts and visiting many third world countries, I've learned to appreciate what we do have. Even though they say our freedoms are a God given right, I have a tendency to believe they were an earned right. It's been earned for us by those before us, those that fought for those rights and defended them. Unfortunately those born into the vacuum we've created here in the US (and never see what's outside of it) will never understand how good they have it.

#84 Whatever. I give up. You can keep living in your delusional happy-land for all I care.

Ted: thank you for taking the time to explain the event leading up to the 9/11 attack (no I really mean it, I am not being sarcastic). But I have always paid attention to things that go on from a liberal points of view. The arguments I get from you people are exactly the same crap I get from everybody else. EXACTLY the same. Believe all the hype and propaganda you want. If you cant read between the lines and think for yourselves, there will always be somebody willing to do that for you.

Ted: You "grew up" while being trained in the marines. Of course the US armed services are notorious for brainwashing. I speak from a personal level myself. I have a lot of family and friends in the service, and 90% of them admit that military training camps are brainwashing camps. If you can listen to the mainstream media (which are owned by corporate entities with vested interest in the new world order), why not listen to independant journalists? It is a known fact that a lot of stories are not completely told, completely changed around, or not told at all. Fine, watch television all you want. You can have the blue pill, I will take the red one.

Jeremy: I can't believe you just called us terrorists. Anyway Jeremy, about being "educated", it is also a well-known fact the US schools (much like the military brainwashing camps) "teach" you how to live and what to believe. If you decide to not believe or live the same way, you are harshly punished. Yes, I suppose you are "educated", but to me that screams conformity to social standards created by other people who couldnt care less about who and what you are, and would prefer to take advantage of you and use you to get what they want. Is it really that difficult to examine what you think and why you think it? Every statement you make is a reflection of your "education" in a way that you sound like a zombie who cannot express one single unique thought, or even a realistic thought.

Yes it's easy enough to see the govt as a bumbling weak group of family people who can barely keep their pants on long enough run the country, but they have guns. Very large ones. They speak softly and carry one hell of a big stick.

Insult my intelligence all you want, after all you were conditioned to do so, I won't take it personally. Stooping to insults of such a low calibre are a sure sign of insecurity in an argument. Running out of ammo? Make fun of my mom.

BTW Jeremy, if you have hostility toward me on this subject, please keep it on this thread. I do not appreciate being harassed on other threads because you don't like me. Acting educated and claiming to be educated are two different things, and believe it or not, the first approach works better.

#85 Hey Ent, first up, my hostility in that other thread was aimed at the guy who didn't think I knew what DirectX was, not you. As in this thread, take the time to read what is being said.

"Brainwashing" is a funny term. That is a word used by people that don't understand. Yes, the Marines hold themselves to a higher standard, and thusly act more in a "Militaryesque" fashion. But that is just because their job requires them to be that way. Personally, I'm glad that people like Ted accept the training they do. People like him assure the freedoms I enjoy on a daily basis. I'm an Air Force officer, but the ground pounders really sacrifice their lives for mine. I salute you Ted.

It's a known fact that US Schools brainwash eh? I don't recall being told how to live my life in Differential Equations. I think the syllabus in that class focused on Differential Equations. I don't remember my 3D Graphics teacher telling me what the meaning of life was. That class was more veered toward the mathematics behind 3D Graphics. My Operating Systems teacher sure as hell never told me who my allegiance should go out to. She actually taught me how an Operating System works. Here's a hint. Read the name of the course, and that is probably what you'll learn (or atleast close to it). Yes, High Schools do expect you to live a certain way. But it is only because you are too young to think for yourself in that age. When you go to college, you live on your own. No one helps you, no one tells you what to do. If that is "brainwashing" then I guess I must be brainwashed. I prefer to use the words "Mature" and "Responsible" myself, but that is just me.

I won't stoop to mom insults. Infact, I honestly respect your mother. She must have had to put up with a lot of shit raising you. She's probably a very strong woman.

#86 Oh, again: Read everything before bashing it. I didn't say that you were a terrorist for thinking the way you do, I said that you would be if you acted violently in the manner you speak of. So yeah, if you kill innocent people because you think they are hindering your freedoms when infact they are not, then yes, I will call you a terrorist.

#87 Jeremy Said:
""Brainwashing" is a funny term. That is a word used by people that don't understand."
Oh believe me, I fully understand the brainwashing process, otherwise I would not refer to it. I have a feeling you know nothing about the subject, and that is why you see it as a funny term. Just because you don't understand it does not mean that other people dont.

"It's a known fact that US Schools brainwash eh? I don't recall being told how to live my life in Differential Equations. "
Differential Equations are not a social idea, they are mathematics, which has little to do with the subject at hand. I am not talking about college here, it is assumed you have already accepted the foundation conditioning that constitutes a productive citizen by then. Go ahead, evade the issue. Public Schools in the USA tell you how to live your life and what to believe in. It seems that you have overlooked this entirely. Did you ever take a social studies course, or psychology classes? Did you ever read a bible in a school library? Did you ever have to sit in a corner? Did you ever try to write a story for the school paper and get turned down because the content was inappropriate? Did you ever do a nude figure study in art class? Did they teach you that columbus didn't discover the USA and managed to slaughter thousand of innocents? It doesnt matter what the subject is in school, it always has a slant. I suppose your school didn't have a dress code, or any kind of code of conduct. In school you are discouraged from expressing any sort of individualism, it is highly condemned. Your opinions in school do not matter because you are there to accept ideas that have been predetermined for you, and to vocalize your opinion would simply earn yourself punishment (unless of course it is what everybody wants to hear). It must be easy to just be able to accept everything people impose on you without question or independant thought.

"But it is only because you are too young to think for yourself in that age. "
And therefore a perfect time to teach you how you "should" live. Do you think you would just naturally be thinking all this if you had never attended a public school system, or been told by everybody around you what the "correct" way of life is all about? Sorry, I think that "too young to think for yourself" stuff is crap. A kid knows how to be a kid.

"I prefer to use the words "Mature" and "Responsible" myself, but that is just me. "
Of course you do, those are social words that depends on what others think about you to have any sort of meaning.

"Oh, again: Read everything before bashing it. I didn't say that you were a terrorist for thinking the way you do, I said that you would be if you acted violently in the manner you speak of. So yeah, if you kill innocent people because you think they are hindering your freedoms when infact they are not, then yes, I will call you a terrorist"

I never said any such thing. I never said anything to even remotely indicate that sort of thing. I simply stated that I understand why Alex thinks that way, why does that all of the sudden make me a terrorist who wants to kill people?

#88 To answer your questions:

I took Social Studies, never took Physchology.

Didn't read a bible in the library, but chose not to. My library offered it as an available resource, along with other religious bibles as well.

Sat in a corner maybe in kindergarten. That is becuase in order to punish little Johnny for punching innocent kids, they take him away from the social interaction he craves. You gonna tell me that you don't believe in punishment now?

Wrote numerous stories, and all of my teachers have been very supportive. Even wrote one that criticized the teacher I handed it to because he's got a good sense of humor.

Didn't do nudes in art because I didn't know how. I never liked art class anyway.

I've actually had two History teachers teach me of Columbus's slaughter of the natives. Yeah, Columbus was an ass.

And for the record, my opinions were highly supported in school. I was on the debate team where they encouraged me to think for myself and come up with arguments I truly believed in.

You may think my high school was the only one on the planet like that, but the truth is that many high schools are like that. And just cuz your high school sucks (or are you in kindergarten?...still thinking about that sitting in the corner remark..), that is not representative of America as a whole. You make statments about America based on your little box that you live in. Here's why growing up makes your opinions more solid: You see more of the world. You travel, you expose yourself to more things, and you learn more about the way things work. Like I said Ent, I was once like you. I argued to my english teachers that the world is conspiring, and that things aren't as they seem. They simply encouraged me to keep thinking that, and research things more. As I did that, I realized that I was wrong. And I didn't research filtered sources of information, I looked the world over. It took me 4 years to understand what I know now, and I still won't know everything even on the day I die. Stop being so close minded man. I'll give you the same advice that all my "conspiring teachers just trying to hold me back" told me: Let no one but yourself tell you what is true. But if you listen to only yourself, it will only be true to yourself. Basically, just open up your mind, and constantly learn. You are too young to be so opinionated. I am too, but I've atleast been exposed to much more than you have. Not to say that I am more right, but more that my beliefs are based on more experience, and exposure to this world. Everyone is going to disagree, just make sure you can back up your claims with fact, and not hunches, opinions, or hear-say.

#89 Jeremy Says:
"Not to say that I am more right, but more that my beliefs are based on more experience, and exposure to this world"
I beg to differ, but unless you are old enough to be my dad (which I doubt), I have probably been around the USA a little more than you have (I would prefer not to talk about myself, because this discussion is not about me as much as you would like it to be). I am not into conspiracy theorys, I am into fact. Not one thing I have said has been a "theory", as there are documented facts to support them. It's fine, go ahead and overlook the obvious. I have wasted enough of my time arguing with somebody who claims to have been in a debate team, yet cannot argue, make one substantiated claim, provide examples to back up anything they say, and hurls insults. You aren't even arguing, you are simply telling me that I am wrong and you are right. Go judge somebody elses character, because I certainly don't give one shit about what you think of me, if I did care what cattle like you thought about me I would be just like you. That is not debate, that is fighting. If you want to believe you are better than everybody else then so be it. Anyway I am leaving town for a month and I won't be here, so I will just leave it at that. Have fun in fantasy land "Ace".

#90 Wow, you are funny. I like how you say that the government is brainwashing us is a "documented fact". If by "documentation" you mean "Unsolved Mysteries" or "X Files" then I guess you are right. Getting a good laugh at work is a good thing every now and then. Tell you what, once you have personal experience with anything we are talking about (and I'm talking YOU, not freinds of freinds), then we'll talk. But until then, I'll take the opinions about the military from the words of the mouths of people that actually have experience in the military (like Ted). It's funny how much you sound like me when I was in High School. I swore I understood the world and the government. Then I realized that they are all people just like me. No black suits, no robotic people...just people with feelings and families. It'd do you some good to have an idea of what you are talking about before talking about it.

Hey Ernest. (C: Thanks for the topic man! I love empassioned debate.

#91 @JeremyTilton: please do not confuse the words 'anarchy' and 'chaos'. Chaos is a situation of total disorder, disaster, and usually death. Anarchy is a theory of government in which there is no government; Anarchists are people who belive in the ideal of a society without a government.

Please note the difference, it is quite stark.

#92 K. then does the statement "anarchy leads to chaos" work? (C: Hey, if that's the only beef you got with me, then that ain't no thang.

#93 ....

#94 If anyone actually feels like being logical for a change please do...because what you guys are bantering about is more comical than anything else.

---
Entropy said, in response to Jeremy about brainwashing:
Oh believe me, I fully understand the brainwashing process, otherwise I would not refer to it. I have a feeling you know nothing about the subject, and that is why you see it as a funny term. Just because you don't understand it does not mean that other people dont.
---

So Jeremy said Entropy doesn't know what it is, and Entropy says Jeremy doesn't know what it is...good one guys! Of course neither of you has actually stated what you think "brainwashing" means. WEll gee, I think *neither* you knows what it is... C'mon this is middle-school level debate...

Can we piece together a definition of brainwashing? Entropy says, in regards to brainwashing:

"Did you ever have to sit in a corner?"

So brainwashing is being made to sit in a corner? Brainwashing is discipline? If you define brainwashing as "social normalization" (something present in all groups larger than 1) I suppose school does brainwash you...trivial definition. You might as well define brainwashing as "someone says something to you." However under that definition brainwashing isn't really a bad thing. Once I had to sit in a corner after killing the class gerbil...so I was brainwashed. In that case I'm all for brainwashing! (I never really killed a gerbil, but I could have, so my point stands)

This is the typical tactic of conspiracy theorists and the paranoid: Instead of saying something, allude to it. Ask questions but don't give straight answers. Be vague.

You want proof that the US government knew about 9/11? Well gee, isn't it strange that some places reported 5 terrorists on a plane, and some 4? There's the proof...a stupid allusion to something "shady" and "mysterious" without any actual evidence.

If you have something to say, flat out say it.




"Did you ever try to write a story for the school paper and get turned down because the content was inappropriate?"

So school newspapers should print everything? This is brainwashing? What if I wrote an article entitled "Entropy sux0rs." Am I being brainwashed if it is rejected? Of course not.

It seems to me your definition of "brainwashing" is "not being allowed and encouraged to do *anything* you want." Welcome to what we call "society."

"It doesnt matter what the subject is in school, it always has a slant."

99% of all statements, including yours, have a slant. Your slant is in favor of your definition of brainwashing. So are you brainwashing us? It is nearly impossible to make any statement that doesn't lean in some direction or another. Some people will argue that "the world is round" has a slant.


"I suppose your school didn't have a dress code, or any kind of code of conduct."

So codes of conduct are "brainwashing?" What about laws, are those brainwashing as well?

Instead of using weak examples and allusions, why don't you both tell us what brainwashing is?

On second thought, why don't I just tell you?

Brainwashing is literally taking someone's mind and washing it away, then replacing it. Taking what they believe and dissolving that with a mixture of drugs and extreme conditions, punishments and rewards, etc. Brainwashing removes the person's ability to think for themselves removes their previous conceptions not by logic but by force.

Social normalization is something completely different. Social normalization is being brought up with knowledge of you society you exist in and pressures to conform in that society. However, someone who has been socially normalized retains all ability to think for themselves and certainly can reject that normalization. Social normalization takes place in EVERY group setting, where group is 2 or more people.

People who have been brainwashed are not aware that they have been brainwashed, they can't complain about brainwashing...that is the point. Social normalization does not remove your ability to think, it just pushes you in the right direction. Sinister as that may sounds, that direction includes away from murder, away from rape, etc.

The idea that any time someone reprimands you they are brainwashing you is so absurd, it renders the term entirely without meaning. I'm brainwashing you right now! Someone tells me murder is wrong...brainwashing!

Of course, under this definition brainwashing is so vague and non-threatening there is no point in fearing it or even discussing it.

#95 Where this debate begins to run itself into circles is where opinions meet belief.

Belief is where no amount of facts to the contrary will sway the individual from their position, no matter how convincing, whereas opinion can be swayed if the evidence presented meets the threshold of information that that individual requires to modify their opinion.

Sort of like religion. I myself do modify my belief in my religion based on the information gained from science, because in my mind, the core tenets of my religion are incontrovertable(and do not necessarily contradict what I have seen in science thus far, evolution included, but that's off-topic...).

People who generally believe in conspiracy theories(myself included, for when I was a teenager), do not form an "opinion" of a conspiracy. It's a belief, just as impervious to argument as a religion is, and will be just as likely to lead to passionate defenses against attack, backed by evidence or not.

The conspiracy theorist centers their behaviors, moral system, and world view around this belief system, and to attack that system is to attack their very world. It is a psychological attack, and will be responded to heavily. This behavior is not limited to conspiracy theorists but also to fanatics of all types(star trek/wars fans, sports team fans, Mac techs-yeah, you know who you are, lol...).

And James is completely right on the brainwashing subject, as that is a process that is slow and usually takes a coordinated effort to provide the kind of constant psychic battering required to destroy a mind and completely reform it. The kind of "brainwashing" that goes on in boot camp is the "Stockholm Syndrome", which is where a group is placed in a setting of "captivity" and subjected to rigors that eventually lead them to bond with their "captors". Where did I learn that? USMC Security Forces school, in one of our terrorism classes that talked about some instances where hostages eventually bonded with captors. This is why you see hostages being handled rather "roughly" by rescue teams, because there have been instances where hostages have been known to side with and participate in terrorist acts(Patty Hearst, for example).

And the entire purpose of boot camp, so you know Ent, is to prepare the soldier mentally, as well as physically, for the rigors of combat. They can't shoot at us while we do things, and there's no really good way to simulate 10,000 charging enemy soldiers, so they yell like madmen at us and make us do intense physical workouts. They also punish others for your mistake to impress upon you the fact that your actions affect more than just yourself, and the mistakes you make will hurt others rather than you sometimes.

Throughout all of this, the number one lesson stressed is that everything is 90% mental, from passing the written tests to humping 20 miles with a pack. That all creates teamwork, a feeling of family and brotherhood, and a "can-do" attitude, even under bad conditions(because most fighting is done in really crappy weather).

But the more telling thing is that that IS brainwashing... to people that hold conspiracy theory-prone minds. It enforces critical thinking skills which do away with most of those beliefs, and replaces them with more learned opinions. But just to make you feel better, I did have a Sergeant who swore up and down that we didn't walk on the moon and that Bob Dole and Newt Gingrich were plotting to take over Washington DC(because it's such an awesome city, you know). =)

And yes, me and him had many arguments about this very same subject, lol...

#96 Ur right James, I did dumb down my arguments a little. Shoulda just let it lie, but I simply couldn't understand where the hell he was coming from. It is very hard to just back out of an argument like that. Some may call it pride, I call it intrigue wrapped in confusion. Anyway, he's gone for a month, so maybe I can finally find a way off this post and get back to making sense when I talk. (C: But I saw no problem in dropping to his level, Ted spoke intelligently enough for the both of us. (C:

#97 You know, I know a lot of the comments posted where not aimed at me, but I do feel the need to speak up once more (surprise, surprise).

I am not a high school student. I have learnt to read and discuss and educate myself on subject befor eI proclaim my opinion to loudly.
However, everything I have said on this subject, I believe in, and I have always backed up with facts. What I don't understand I show can people so unitarily believe in something one way or an other. Maybe it's linked to that fanaticism Ted was just talking about.

I am by nature, a bit paranoic, protective of my privacy, inquisitive, suspicious, freedom-loving, and untrusting of people I have no reason to trust. I also try to balance that with carefully examining both sides of any issue before forming a particular opinion or judgement.

What drives me nuts however is that some people honestly believe that the government will never fuck around with their lives, that they could never do anything purposely evil. They say, the government is too dumb, or too inept with its money (like it's somehow in the government's interests to spend less than its budget). I can't understand that people will outright an entity as distant to them as a government. It's not like they're you're neighbor, or a friend. They are people who've never fucking met you, and don't really give a rat's ass about you. They care about power, and prestige (I'm not saying all do). And yet you trust these people blindly. You actually think that they'll never hurt you, or not intentionally, and that the checks and balances will hold.

I strongly believe our government is ever so slowly getting out of hand. But it seems that people don't care, or they just ignore it. It's not important to them. It's not important to them until it starts affecting them directly. I don't know, this really irritates me. You don't have to bash the government, but seriously, how can you be trusting? Do you really think they will hold their end of the bargain if the citizens don't keep an eye on them, if they don't stay vigilant.

#98 Of course the govt won't hold it's end of the bargain if we aren't vigilant. The fore fathers predicted that as well, and it's something that is inevitable in coming, whether one year or one thousand years down the road(I'd rather the latter myself).

However, the difference is how you keep an eye on your govt. Entropy has basically completely lost faith in the govt, which means that his "eye-keeping" is composed of seeing everything the govt does in terms of a component in it's ever-present drive to take over the world.

Judging from his response to my partial origin of Al-Qaeda, he has not researched the subjects so much as formed opinions on them based on his belief that the govt is this terrible "military-industrial" machine(as many others call it). That is the other end of the spectrum from being blindly trusting(which I am not, but I simply vote to change things).

It actually is in the interest of the govt to spend wisely most times, though economists will tell you that at certain points in the economy, it is actually good to run a deficit. I don't get that myself, but they make a living running those numbers. What the govt does that I don't like(and this is where the spending actually gets out of control) is attach "riders" to bills that have nothing to do with the bill itself. Like all the little riders on the Homeland Security Bill for farmers and stuff. I can't point a finger at either party, because all of them do it, right down to the independants.

But sometimes, just *sometimes*, a subject needs to be researched and picked apart very carefully before one comes to a conclusion. The problem is that people don't usually have that much time or interest in these situations to read the dozen or so articles it takes to find out about these things. So most people vote for who they like without understanding what they have done and will do. It comes down to the lies in campaigns. Here's a few facts to think about regarding this bill:

Federal troops used to guard the streets in a constable capacity until the late 1800's after the civil war. Now, only a dire emergency brings out the national guard, such as floods or very large riots.

People may say that monitoring the communications on chat rooms and emails are going too far, consider that to get access to email requires the same authorization as that to get a wiretap. And the fact that a federal agent cannot sit in on a *public* chatroom to see the chatter is just ludicrous. That's the same as a policeman not being allowed to walk the beat in a neighborhood to see what's going on.

Concerning the "consumer data": This is all already available to the feds. The problem is that it's all so spread out and dispersed that they can't pull it together with any speed, and so it's usually used after the fact as evidence. I know that in the military, if you go UA(AWOL), then the MP's go to your bank and track your location by the ATM's you use and checks/credit cards you use. It works, and works where physical surveillance teams can't be used(because physical surveillance teams can be huge and a big drain on manpower). The local police use this tactic as well, when tracking escaped fellons and such. It's just too cumbersome, and needs to be streamlined to be used better.

Noone but the militias complained that the govt tracks the usage of fertilizer, and it hasn't lead to false arrests or the sweeping up of gardeners anywhere.

And it *was* found that Iraq had ordered the execution of a sitting US President, the first bombing of the WTC, the bombing of Radio Free America in Europe(by the same man who met with Mohammed Atta). Abu Nidal was sheltered by Iraq for years, they have been caught smuggling weapons to the palestinians and inciting riots there(which doesn't help the palestinians at all, really), and they've been violating the ceasefire agreement by firing on coalition planes roughly once a week since the end of the war, which is grounds for resumption of combat in itself(the North Koreans don't pull that crap, and for the very reason that it's a ceasefire violation).

And it's been established that all of the materials used in the construction of the weaponized anthrax does *not* match that of US or Soviet programs. US anthrax does not use silica to make it airborne, and it was 10x more refined than Soviet anthrax and 50x more than US anthrax. Furthermore, the UN records incidents of Iraq ordering the Silica, the blowdrying(sp?) machines, and it already had the anthrax(~10,000 gallons). Also, the US never used Silica for their anthrax program, though it's been used for other programs. And one of the man's sons is a confirmed serial killer, and heir to the throne of Baghdad(he's got to kill his brother first, but that's never been a problem in that family). Sooo, in my mind, we should have finished this dance a long time ago rather than listen to other countries and stopped where we were in the middle of freeing Iraq. Bush 41's fault, that.

#99 "the govt is this terrible "military-industrial" machine(as many others call it)."

I really think this due to misinterpretation of the movies/books referenced above. Orwell wrote satires about his fears concerning Stalinism (1984) and autocratic government (Animal Farm). That was it, the guy was absolutely terrified of it. It fueled generations of fear and paranoia by those reading too far into it and making it damn near a religion (as Ted referenced). There's always been a sort of 'pop culture' from the 70-80's associated with this subject. The 'dark and mysterious side' to government conspiracy is almost romanticised and it does make for some thrilling concepts. But so does Aliens in our society, the Loch Ness monster and Bigfoot. Like anything people have a need to believe in something, whether mild or fanatically extreme. Unfortunately the latter tends to be more exciting and gives them a sense of power. I think a little distrust is a good thing, but some people have a tendency to go waaay overboard.

#100 How do you all write so much. Damn