What's a lone wolf to do...?

#1 Hey, add 4 kids and a wife to the equation and you got me. :) I currently work full time, and go to college full time, play in a band at church, and I am working on a 2d RPG completely lone wolf. My first advice would be to go 2D. As enticing as it is to go 3D, I honestly don't know where you would find the time. Secondly, don't work against the engine like I have been. You will spend hours of time hacking the internal code to accomplish what you want. For me it has been worth it, but I am so far off schedule I am going to have to re-write it.

Don't be too proud to ask for help and use code others are offering. Also, buy some programs that will help you accomplish the task. Your AI ideas sound cool, and if this is what you are trying to highlight, I would say this is your main focus. Work on all the other elements, but when you are bored go tweak on your main focus, this is the part you should be most familiar with, and should show the most polish. Once you get it pollished, change your main focus to another area.

I am still learning art, and I have bought several books that have helped tremendously. I work on and study art from time to time, but I have template characters and objects I am building with right now. Ideally, you need to get some starter art to prototype with, make sure it does everything you need, and fake it where it doesn't, then plug your own art in later.

Also, don't forget music. If you are not too hot on it, there are great resources available for this. There is a great music pack for RPG's here at GG, and neosounds.com has all kinds of incredible stuff. I wish 2d art resources were this vast and flexible. :)

And please note, I haven't completed any "Large" games yet. I am still working on my first, and I have been learning as I go. The most important thing I have found is to simply keep working on it. If I get frustrated, I switch gears over to music, art, or tackle busy work in the script.

#2 Dunno if it helps at all, after all its only you that in the end can decide how you want to wake up every day, but...

Ive tampered with computers since '81, coding a little but mostly doing project definition and management the last ton of years. Around 2001 I kinda tilted towards the pixelpushing and modeling/mapping and web-related codings...

I wont claim I'm brilliant at anything heres my drawing level and my skinning level.

Recently (the last 1,5 year) I have been focusing on code though (Torquescript, C++, Java, etc.) to be able to actually get somewhere with all the 'tricks of the can' Im able to do. So my suggestion is -focus on the code, at least that will allow you to tie your strings into something

#3 You say you love programming and art/design. Well why not just be both?

Learn some OpenGL, then program with it. Make new shaders or systems that can help with art.

#4 Thanks for the quick reply!

I know what you mean about the 2D thing--I have worked a limited amount with 2D programs (first with RPG Maker, and later with Sphere). I enjoyed it, but I guess as I just always felt too limited. To be sure, 3D is a much more daunting task, but Torque was really what got me interested in 3D because it provides the functionality of a 3D engine without all of the complications of creating an engine yourself (unless, of course, you want to get that deep into it).

But the main problems I have are moving things from theoretical to practical. My drawings are never as good as they are in my head, which in turn are never as good in 3D as they were in the drawings. I know I'm not alone there, that's the classic artist's dilemma--the mind's eye not corresponding to the hand's movement--but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with. Which is why I went into Architecture instead of continuing on to a Bachelor's in Design and Animation: a competitive industry like animation won't wait for you to reconcile your issues to find your place, and if you're not a natural, it will happily pass you by without a wave. Which isn't to say that Architecture isn't competitive too, but that's a whole other sack o' potatoes.

I guess TorqueScript should probably be my main focus right now--I'm a competent programmer/scripter with other programs, I just have to find the ins and outs of Torque to really make things work. The syntax doesn't bother me, it's just the structure of the program that gets me. Four years ago, I was a wizard with 3D GameStudio's C-Script, able to make a decent mock-up of a game and even getting into the AI stuff. Granted, that's a much higher-level language than TorqueScript (allowing less functionality off the bat, but much easier to learn). So far I have learned a bit about how it does what it does, but not getting to the real meat of it.

I guess that's what I'll work on this week (because I'm about ready to throw my graphics tablet out the window because of my recent character-design disappointments, lol). I'm sure I'll be around quite a bit because documentation only does so well, and in cases like this it's the community that makes the real difference. And I can work primarily inside Torque, which is much more pleasant than trying to work out art issues with importing/exporting (MAX2DTS, Atlas issues...ugh...)

BUT--don't consider this topic closed, I would still love to hear others' input on the subject!

#5 Christian and Tyler:

I was typing that post while you posted, but everything you said pretty much jives with what I decided. I can do art anywhere and any time, but until I understand Torque, I won't have any use for my art, good or bad.

Thanks for the advice!

#6 I agree with everything everyone else has said. But I do think that perhaps, Gareth, you and I are alike. I do programmer's art and artist's programming. On the other hand, that means I know a little bit about everything, which is really the ideal perspective if you want to be a game designer. You need to know what is possible and then get detailed help from the pros in their various disciplines.

It is for this reason that I chose to go 3d first. I think the reason people recommend doing 2d first is not so much because it's easier--because it's not really that much easier in many respects. What it is is that the projects are by their nature smaller, and more completeable. It's very important to see something through to completion.

The thing is, 2d is much more heavily reliant, in my opinion, on quality art. Because the games are simpler, they must be more attractive, if for no other reason than that there are many, many quality 2d games being made these days. Hence, if you can't compete with mindblowing art, you're left with the cleverness of your game. And this, for me is the kicker--it's much harder to be clever in 2d.

This is the thought process I went through for myself, and of course YMMV. Also, I wasn't even remotely interested in doing 2d games! They're so flat and boring! bah!

Anyway, when I started out I had a partner, who flaked out after about six weeks. I've had numerous offers of partnership on various fronts, none of which had sufficient force to even follow up with me about it, let alone actually do anything. So I've come to understand it's gotta be all me. And that's what I should have known before I even got started.

So I'm coming up onto three years of working on my first game, nearly two of which I was voluntarily unemployed in order to work on it full time (hah. Try double time--but I had a ball for 20 glorious months).

Mind you, I started from toying with the Quake3 engine, to Torque, to learning Torque, to becoming effective with it, jacking around with TGEA, polysoup collision, and a million other things, to learning Blender, etc. I'm working on level #5 now :-)

If I had to start over again, I could do what I have now in about a year, and it would be better.

So yeah. You absolutely have to learn all about Torque. Torque is the best engine for this sort of journey, imho. Get Torsion. Just go get it. Also get the polysoup collision code and throw away your map editing software forever. And I have to recommend Blender.

Just start making a game. Start with one element, figure out how to do it, then move on to another. It doesn't really matter what order you go in--there's so much to learn--just start with what you think would be cool.

lee
www.singularityfps.com

#7 @Lee: Thanks for the encouragement! It's good to see that there are people who have not let themselves get steamrolled by the daunting task of developing a game. I would love to work on a game full time, and I kind of regret not paying more attention to the theory back when I was in high school and had more time on my hands. But you know how it is, life is not a struggle to do well, but rather a struggle to allocate time properly that allows you to do well...

Speaking of polysoup, I have heard it several times now, but I didn't really understand it. Is it something that allows you to use programs like 3D Studio Max to create interiors (essentially)? I have been searching for an explanation of what it is, but I can only find posts that talk about implementing it. If it does allow me to do that, that would make my job about 1 septillion times easier.

Also, I have TGEA 1.7, and on the template map there is already something called a Polysoup object. Can I assume that it is already implemented? That would make things much better because I have never been able to compile anything successfully, no matter how closely I follow the explanations. Any word on this would be very helpful.

#8 Some folks have been told to choose one thing in life and do it better then anyone else.
Well... Who says you cannot be great at many things equally?
"Lone Wolf" doesn't mean your an island among mountains.
The Lone Wolf is more than independant by necessity, your also the "Boss".. the Alpha male!
Your able to do many things, some better then others because of neccessity or desire to do well.
Any areas that you might lack in should not be considered as a weakness but rather as a chance to improve.

Your talents will develop as you progress with your project. Even people that are nominated as being the best, still find room to improve in themselves.
For those of us in the Lone Wolf category, it's about choosing a project that is more a labor of love, then it is to prove anything to the next person. We don't need to prove who we are, or the level of our skills. And we are not building this project as a means of life support or support for the family.

The Lone Wolf does have limitations such as time to invest. Choosing to take the easy way for some parts of a project is natural in everything about the world we live in. Electricty flows through the shortest route, Water doesn't flow up the mountain, and Wild animals hunt for the single target or the weaker stray..Because it's more natural and because we are not out to prove we can move mountains, it's enough to know we can.. when we must.

For me, my project has been in design for years. Torque is my avenue. I was 80% completed with my project and without backup CD's or a spare HD drive and I was set back to ground zero when my computer became unstable and I discovered several virii on my system. I did a complete format of the HD. I bought several cases of CDRW's, and restarted my project with the notion that I will make it better this time around.

I have learned Constructor inside and out, Learned 3D World Studio ( use both same time ), I dismissed LightWave and bought Houdini ( Learning in progress ), I bought and study the books from GG press, the 2 books together are a great learning tool and reference. I practice debugging both in Torsion and VS 2008.
I started making my own textures using GIMP and a 6 megapixel digital camera, and frequently download hundreds of textures that people offer on the internet for free. And I wrote my own story line.
I have payed for help with parts that I want fixed or made better then I can do.

And remember this is just a hobby project that might never get completed. I am OK with that. It's just a hobby, keeps me happy, and nobody is breathing down my neck to get anything completed on a schedule.

Polysoup is a term for an object that is both convex and concave polygons, it's a means of making an odd layout or object usable for games. and allows collision. Too many polysoup objects can be CPU intensive and should be used sparingly and not placed too close to the next polysoup object.

#9 @Scott: I know what you mean about backing up your system. I lost most of my college works when my computer went on the blink...there's nothing like the feeling you get in the pit of your stomach when you have to format an HD with hundreds of hours of work on it, knowing you're not only losing the data, but also the time it took to make the data. My condolences!

The idea of a project as a hobby is also something I relate to. The fact is, I know I may not be good enough at art and programming to work professionally at it, but something about independent game design is liberating to the soul. The GG community is like being at college, in a way--everyone is engrossed in their own projects, but most also jump at the opportunity to sit around and talk about things like how great Fridays are. There is something to this that, while it doesn't necessarily boost productivity, is helpful to boost morale and keep people from giving up.

The odd thing about me, I suppose, is that I don't have some grand idea about a specific game I'd like to make. I just love to see things start in the mind and end up in material existence (hence my current major being architecture). As a result, I often suffer from lack of inspiration and find myself unsure about what it is I would really like to make. I suppose a goal for me would be to hone my skills enough that I could work with someone on their idea, because right now, I have fairly little to contribute (except in the case of testing, naturally!).

As for the project not getting done, I relate there, too. If you were to go back and pile together all of the unfinished projects I have worked on, there would probably be enough content and work put in to comprise at least one complete game. But I always get disappointed or stuck with a story, and end up moving on to something new.

As a result, I am walking through my newest project via blogs to keep myself motivated to get it at least to a playable condition. My first task is to finish something (and therefore overcome the steps that always make me stop making it), and then later I can set my sights higher to creating something beautiful and meaningful.

All I can say is that game design is a huge part of my life, and developing has taught me a lot about appreciating how much (or, in some cases, little) work goes into their creation. I greatly appreciate the support here and hope to make something that will justify everyone's help!

#10 Gareth I just read your blog on your project link above. Your definitly talented. Your ideas of Arena battles
are good ones and you just might need a little nudge once in awhile. Somebody to Pat you on the back and say "Gareth, thats great! I could never do something like that" or similar. It's sort of like getting paid via Ego.

And if you need an ego boost from a small project that can be completed, there is always the tutorials that give you walk throughs. If your skills are beyond that, and you seek fresh ideas, the community would have hundreds of ideas for you.
It would just be a matter of matching your skills to the project you choose and when you get stumped, we both have the entire community to ask for help.
Some thing I always liked as a kid was hunting with my father. it was rare but nothing compared to the guidance given, the aim and the kick of a shotgun.. just to take home a prize Deer you know your going to enjoy eating. Perhaps a bit graphic.. but FPS games are not so far from it.. instead of eating for nourishment, your gaining a rush of excitement from the hunt.
Something like Tork Shooting gallery would be interesting to play. Something like those shooting galeries on the eastern boardwalks. small red and white targets on the Pianist, or the swimming duck decoys, or the owl in the tree, it was simple and addicting. You had to aim right to get the target to animate, and some of those targets moved and animated after you got a direct hit.
That shooting gallery was always full of people waiting next in line, me included.
There was another shooting gallery I liked, it was all about shooting the Star out ( torn completely out ) from the small paper target. If you got the entire star shot out of the paper you won a prize, usually some large electronic like a television or some such.
It would be easy enough to make with Torque and it might even be a great selling game. Depends on your art skills for visual appeal, and your script skills for logic.

Just an idea. That is if your actually looking for ideas that can be completed with most of that sort of coding already done in the resources.

Either way, it sounds to me like your bursting at the seems with talent that you are not sure where to focus it all into. Maybe take a break and think about what other hobby you like and consider making a PC game out of it.

#11 That would be fun. I know, even when I was back playing the NES in the late 80s and early 90s, there were a great many side games (such as on The Simpsons: Bart vs. The Space Mutants' circus level) that would be fun to play on their own for long periods of time. I know there was a light-gun arcade game that was like that, and was very fun (that was fairly recent).

Maybe I could incorporate something like that into that game, as I don't know what my next project will be. As long as the implementation is good, then there are many ways you could work with that.

I'd better not continue with ideas lest I turn this post into one that belongs in the "Game Ideas" forum, but I'm very happy with the attention this has received, and I also would still love to hear more about how people found out their calling in game design!

#12 @Gareth: you are correct, polysoup allows you to make your level in 3ds max. I'm behind on my TGEA, but I may recall that they were going to bundle polysoup. So yeah, it might already be compiled in.

Note, though, that you will definitely have to get competent to build Torque in the long run. Not right away, but not too long in the future, either. It's really not that bad. Seriously. And there are tons of free resources that are more or less drop in code that you recompile and voila, you've got a new engine property. Good times.

And make backups! lol.

#13 @Scott: The GG forums have a "feature" that if you hit reload on a page where you just posted, it re-posts your last post again.

I find the "Notify me" checkbox works reliably tho.