New beta build of TX 3D Builder now available! Sept. 29
by Kenneth Holst · in Torque X 2D · 09/29/2008 (4:36 pm) · 19 replies
Grab it here!
This has a new key to use with the builder, and should resolve the last of those issues people have been having registering.
This has a new key to use with the builder, and should resolve the last of those issues people have been having registering.
#2
Perhaps someone can tell me what is going on if they actually see a screenshot of the symptoms? (There's no error thrown, all symptoms are visual)
I cannot add terrain, a skybox, lights, etc... All of that stuff just simply does nothing.
When I try to add a primitive or model, I can move it around or rotate it a little (very little) before this happens:
09/29/2008 (6:28 pm)
I just don't get it... This version is no better for me than any other version I've tried... They have all universally been absolutely borked...Perhaps someone can tell me what is going on if they actually see a screenshot of the symptoms? (There's no error thrown, all symptoms are visual)
I cannot add terrain, a skybox, lights, etc... All of that stuff just simply does nothing.
When I try to add a primitive or model, I can move it around or rotate it a little (very little) before this happens:
#3
Let's start with the basics. Let me know what you have installed on your computer at this point, as it relates to XNA, and go from there.
09/29/2008 (8:22 pm)
Hey Jonah. After you open your project, do you then also open up the scene file? The default 3d project should contain a skybox and a terrain already.Let's start with the basics. Let me know what you have installed on your computer at this point, as it relates to XNA, and go from there.
#4
Installed : Vista Ultimate 32-bit, Visual Studio 2005 SP1, Visual Studio 2005 Express SP1, latest DirectX, XNAGS 2.0, TorqueX Pro, TGE demo, .NET Framework (1.0.3705, 1.1.4322, 2.0.50727, 3.0, and 3.5), all of which is kept current by regularly scheduled Microsoft Update. I don't know what else to add here.
The TorqueX demos all run perfectly fine (except the odd exception in the physics demo relating to invalid range), the TGE demo and in-game editors work fine, the TX starter projects work fine. I've never had any video or DirectX-related problems that I'm aware of, and while my video is kinda wimpy I can use 3DS Max, L3DT, AC3D, ZBrush 3, XSI Mod Tool, play Oblivion and other games, and have been idly playing with XNA since it was initially made public.
I load up the TX 3D Builder, go to "File->Open XNA Game Studio Project", select either one of my starter-kit-derived projects or one of the demos that came with TXPro (and *why* can't I have a period in the path?), and am presented with a black screen, and I cannot see anything I would expect to see from the scene. As I said before, attempting to add a Terrain, Sky Box, or Light (by either double-clicking or selecting then pressing 'Add Asset to Scene') appears to do nothing. If I add any models from the 'My Project Assets' or a primitive from 'Torque X Objects', I can move it around a bit, but the camera is all wonky (by which I mean that it does not control at all like I expect) and any attempt to rotate anything results in it becoming distorted beyond recognition.
I don't know what else to add that might be relevant, so please let me know if I've left anything out.
P.S.: Maybe it's just because I'm experiencing problems, but the gizmos in TXB are very odd. I had expected something more along the lines of this (on ZiggyWare), which I've played around with a bit, and is much more familiar to most people. Please don't take that negatively, I'm just trying to provide some feedback :)
09/29/2008 (9:29 pm)
Hardware : 2.6GHz dual-core HP Laptop with 2GB memory, NVIDIA GEFORCE GO 7400 video with 128MB dedicated (384MB total) video memory, all drivers current.Installed : Vista Ultimate 32-bit, Visual Studio 2005 SP1, Visual Studio 2005 Express SP1, latest DirectX, XNAGS 2.0, TorqueX Pro, TGE demo, .NET Framework (1.0.3705, 1.1.4322, 2.0.50727, 3.0, and 3.5), all of which is kept current by regularly scheduled Microsoft Update. I don't know what else to add here.
The TorqueX demos all run perfectly fine (except the odd exception in the physics demo relating to invalid range), the TGE demo and in-game editors work fine, the TX starter projects work fine. I've never had any video or DirectX-related problems that I'm aware of, and while my video is kinda wimpy I can use 3DS Max, L3DT, AC3D, ZBrush 3, XSI Mod Tool, play Oblivion and other games, and have been idly playing with XNA since it was initially made public.
I load up the TX 3D Builder, go to "File->Open XNA Game Studio Project", select either one of my starter-kit-derived projects or one of the demos that came with TXPro (and *why* can't I have a period in the path?), and am presented with a black screen, and I cannot see anything I would expect to see from the scene. As I said before, attempting to add a Terrain, Sky Box, or Light (by either double-clicking or selecting then pressing 'Add Asset to Scene') appears to do nothing. If I add any models from the 'My Project Assets' or a primitive from 'Torque X Objects', I can move it around a bit, but the camera is all wonky (by which I mean that it does not control at all like I expect) and any attempt to rotate anything results in it becoming distorted beyond recognition.
I don't know what else to add that might be relevant, so please let me know if I've left anything out.
P.S.: Maybe it's just because I'm experiencing problems, but the gizmos in TXB are very odd. I had expected something more along the lines of this (on ZiggyWare), which I've played around with a bit, and is much more familiar to most people. Please don't take that negatively, I'm just trying to provide some feedback :)
#5
is this new release only resolving the registation problems or are other changes or bug-fixes
to the version of september 10?
09/29/2008 (11:00 pm)
Hi Kenneth,is this new release only resolving the registation problems or are other changes or bug-fixes
to the version of september 10?
#6
John K.
09/29/2008 (11:13 pm)
Thorsten, there were no registration problems. The key simply expired as the Beta has run longer than originally expected. Please try entering the new key listed above. Also, this build has some changes that we hope help resolve your localization issues. So please open your XML view and see if the positions still have commas instead of decimals. John K.
#7
1. Create and compile new 3D Game Project in Visual C#
2. Open the compiled game project and the existing levelData.txscene file in the 3D Builder
3. Import the assets (such as a model)
4. Rebuild the game code in Visual C#
5. Place the model into the scene and position it
6. Run the compiled game and see the model within the game
If you can not complete these steps, where does it break down? Of the hundreds of people playing with this Beta we haven't heard much complaints about this problem, so it's helpful to capture your details. Your listed hardware and environment sound perfectly fine. And as long as a normal Torque X 3D game works for you, there shouldn't be unusual rendering problems.
John K.
09/29/2008 (11:45 pm)
Jonah, thank you for the feedback. For the areas you've mentioned, this build doesn't offer much progress. Rather, a lot of focus was put into stability, registration issues, localization. Some changes were made to object rotation, but it still blows up when you combine object rotation with scaling. The bit about having a period in the path has to do with the content loader and still being looked into. Are you able to step through the following?1. Create and compile new 3D Game Project in Visual C#
2. Open the compiled game project and the existing levelData.txscene file in the 3D Builder
3. Import the assets (such as a model)
4. Rebuild the game code in Visual C#
5. Place the model into the scene and position it
6. Run the compiled game and see the model within the game
If you can not complete these steps, where does it break down? Of the hundreds of people playing with this Beta we haven't heard much complaints about this problem, so it's helpful to capture your details. Your listed hardware and environment sound perfectly fine. And as long as a normal Torque X 3D game works for you, there shouldn't be unusual rendering problems.
John K.
#8
The positions are now saved using decimals.
But there is small display problem: The position of an object, i.e. the position in its scene component
is displayed using commas. After clicking into this position fields the dispay is refreshed and the commas
are replaced by decimals. So only a minor problem.
Sorry for reporting all this peanuts
09/29/2008 (11:54 pm)
Hurray, problem solved :-)The positions are now saved using decimals.
But there is small display problem: The position of an object, i.e. the position in its scene component
is displayed using commas. After clicking into this position fields the dispay is refreshed and the commas
are replaced by decimals. So only a minor problem.
Sorry for reporting all this peanuts
#9
John K.
09/30/2008 (12:10 am)
Hey, I like peanuts ;) Thanks for reporting back Thorsten, I'm happy to hear the change worked. I might be able to move the localization code so that it doesn't show commas in the properties window. But it sounds like you can now save scene files that can be loaded by the game. John K.
#10
1: Yes, I can create a new project, compile it, and run it just fine. I get an empty scene with just the skybox and terrain, and can fly around and view the terrain.
2: I opened the .csproj file using "File -> Open XNA Game Studio Project", and was presented with a black screen. No skybox, no terrain, just black. (EDIT: See 'a few notes', below)
3: Imported a model asset from the FPS demo. Seemed to work just fine, although I tried importing the textures at the same time as the model, and it did not allow me to specify separate target folders, so my textures are in the wrong spot :)
4: Rebuild went fine.
5: I assume that you mean to open the scene in TXB3D again and place the model? I can do that, though the axes frequently appear to be exactly opposite of what I expect (move the mouse right, the model moves left, etc). Still cannot scale or rotate the model without things going completely whacky, however.
6: I can run the compiled game and see the imported assets just fine.
A few notes (some of which are off-topic) :
1: Part of my problem lies in ignorance of how TXB3D is supposed to work, and I wasn't properly opening the scenes. Once I realized that I needed to *explicitly* open an existing txscene, I was able to see the existing skybox and terrain. I am still unable to add any terrain, though I can now add/change a skybox.
2: On a few occasions I was unable to use the right arrow key to rotate the camera right. This happened every time after having used the mouse to rotate the camera left. Right-mouse drag the view left, and the right arrow key no longer worked. Right-mouse drag right, and the right arrow key would start working again.
3: When rotating a model, after it has become distorted, the Rotation property in the property grid does not appear to be normalized. In one case, it had the number 55,000 as one of the axis values.
4: The rotation/translation/scale gizmos are frequently embedded within the model, and one or more axes may not be pickable with the mouse.
5: Frequently, when attempting to move the imported model around, the mouse pick code was off by at least an inch of screen-space. I had to 'muddle through' by waiting until one of the gizmo's axis indicators lit up to know when I was in the right spot. Also, when attempting to use the gizmo to move the model, it would frequently move in the *opposite* direction as my mouse movement, which is disconcerting.
Now that I know that part of this was just due to my ignorance, things look a lot less broken :)
Looking forward to the progress, looks like it'll shape up to be a pretty good tool.
09/30/2008 (8:58 am)
@John,1: Yes, I can create a new project, compile it, and run it just fine. I get an empty scene with just the skybox and terrain, and can fly around and view the terrain.
2: I opened the .csproj file using "File -> Open XNA Game Studio Project", and was presented with a black screen. No skybox, no terrain, just black. (EDIT: See 'a few notes', below)
3: Imported a model asset from the FPS demo. Seemed to work just fine, although I tried importing the textures at the same time as the model, and it did not allow me to specify separate target folders, so my textures are in the wrong spot :)
4: Rebuild went fine.
5: I assume that you mean to open the scene in TXB3D again and place the model? I can do that, though the axes frequently appear to be exactly opposite of what I expect (move the mouse right, the model moves left, etc). Still cannot scale or rotate the model without things going completely whacky, however.
6: I can run the compiled game and see the imported assets just fine.
A few notes (some of which are off-topic) :
1: Part of my problem lies in ignorance of how TXB3D is supposed to work, and I wasn't properly opening the scenes. Once I realized that I needed to *explicitly* open an existing txscene, I was able to see the existing skybox and terrain. I am still unable to add any terrain, though I can now add/change a skybox.
2: On a few occasions I was unable to use the right arrow key to rotate the camera right. This happened every time after having used the mouse to rotate the camera left. Right-mouse drag the view left, and the right arrow key no longer worked. Right-mouse drag right, and the right arrow key would start working again.
3: When rotating a model, after it has become distorted, the Rotation property in the property grid does not appear to be normalized. In one case, it had the number 55,000 as one of the axis values.
4: The rotation/translation/scale gizmos are frequently embedded within the model, and one or more axes may not be pickable with the mouse.
5: Frequently, when attempting to move the imported model around, the mouse pick code was off by at least an inch of screen-space. I had to 'muddle through' by waiting until one of the gizmo's axis indicators lit up to know when I was in the right spot. Also, when attempting to use the gizmo to move the model, it would frequently move in the *opposite* direction as my mouse movement, which is disconcerting.
Now that I know that part of this was just due to my ignorance, things look a lot less broken :)
Looking forward to the progress, looks like it'll shape up to be a pretty good tool.
#11
1. It sounds like the initial confusion was that openning a scene was not an obvious first step. There needs to be a way to make this more clear; maybe a startup wizard can help direct newcomers through the first steps.
2. I haven't run into this yet, but one thing I should point out is that the viewport movement (WASD & Arrow Keys & Mouse Dragging) only works when the cursor is over the 3D viewport. This is by design so that you can use those keys when typing into the Properties sheet or XML editor. Again, this might not be obvious and one thing that can be done here is to change the mouse cursor from the default "Arrow" to something else when over the viewport.
3. This is still an open bug, and you're right on target with this.
4. This is also a problem, (Ken) can you log this issue in the Bug database? The axis gizmo needs to be scaled relative to the 3D model's bounding box. This way the gizmo handles will always be outside the shape.
5. A few people are seeing this problem too, and it's currently the very highest priority issue.
Sorry, one more question... since you are running Vista, are you starting the 3D Builder with "Run as Administrator" set? Since Vista is picky about programs copying files from one place to another, Administrative permissions need to be set. I'm still bothered that certain objects (such as terrain) are not being added into the scene for you. Thank you again for the feedback, this is exactly what's needed to make this a more useful tool for everyone.
John K.
09/30/2008 (9:52 am)
Jonah, I appreciate your feedback 1. It sounds like the initial confusion was that openning a scene was not an obvious first step. There needs to be a way to make this more clear; maybe a startup wizard can help direct newcomers through the first steps.
2. I haven't run into this yet, but one thing I should point out is that the viewport movement (WASD & Arrow Keys & Mouse Dragging) only works when the cursor is over the 3D viewport. This is by design so that you can use those keys when typing into the Properties sheet or XML editor. Again, this might not be obvious and one thing that can be done here is to change the mouse cursor from the default "Arrow" to something else when over the viewport.
3. This is still an open bug, and you're right on target with this.
4. This is also a problem, (Ken) can you log this issue in the Bug database? The axis gizmo needs to be scaled relative to the 3D model's bounding box. This way the gizmo handles will always be outside the shape.
5. A few people are seeing this problem too, and it's currently the very highest priority issue.
Sorry, one more question... since you are running Vista, are you starting the 3D Builder with "Run as Administrator" set? Since Vista is picky about programs copying files from one place to another, Administrative permissions need to be set. I'm still bothered that certain objects (such as terrain) are not being added into the scene for you. Thank you again for the feedback, this is exactly what's needed to make this a more useful tool for everyone.
John K.
#12
I was not specifically doing so before, but despite well-known security "best practices" I have turned off UAP and always run as admin on my dev box, even though convincing Vista to allow this was initially a pain in the rear.
Having said that, even when I do explicitly select "Run as Administrator", the behavior with regard to Terrain seems unchanged.
I have noticed, however, that if I attempt to add a Terrain more than one time I am asked whether I wish to replace the current Terrain, so the builder is apparently aware that I have attempted to add a Terrain.
I can see the Terrain in the scene explorer, and can view it's properties (I had not noticed this previously), but the Terrain is not visible. If I attempt to save the scene after having added the terrain, I get the following error message:
09/30/2008 (11:32 am)
Quote:Sorry, one more question... since you are running Vista, are you starting the 3D Builder with "Run as Administrator" set? Since Vista is picky about programs copying files from one place to another, Administrative permissions need to be set.
I was not specifically doing so before, but despite well-known security "best practices" I have turned off UAP and always run as admin on my dev box, even though convincing Vista to allow this was initially a pain in the rear.
Having said that, even when I do explicitly select "Run as Administrator", the behavior with regard to Terrain seems unchanged.
I have noticed, however, that if I attempt to add a Terrain more than one time I am asked whether I wish to replace the current Terrain, so the builder is apparently aware that I have attempted to add a Terrain.
I can see the Terrain in the scene explorer, and can view it's properties (I had not noticed this previously), but the Terrain is not visible. If I attempt to save the scene after having added the terrain, I get the following error message:
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at TorqueXBuilder3D.SceneDataSerializer.Serialze(String OutputPath)
at TorqueXBuilder3D.FormMain.menuFileSaveScene_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at DevComponents.DotNetBar.BaseItem.RaiseClick(eEventSource source)
at DevComponents.DotNetBar.BaseItem.InternalMouseUp(MouseEventArgs objArg)
at DevComponents.DotNetBar.PopupItem.InternalMouseUp(MouseEventArgs objArg)
at DevComponents.DotNetBar.ButtonItem.InternalMouseUp(MouseEventArgs objArg)
at DevComponents.DotNetBar.BaseItem.InternalMouseUp(MouseEventArgs objArg)
at DevComponents.DotNetBar.GenericItemContainer.InternalMouseUp(MouseEventArgs objArg)
at DevComponents.DotNetBar.Bar.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at DevComponents.DotNetBar.Bar.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
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----------------------------------------
#13
11/12/2008 (1:50 pm)
The Key MZMY-HWHR-ZMAC-KH9W does NOT work for me with the "SetupTorqueXBuilder3D_Sep29.exe". Is there newer version out there?
#14
11/12/2008 (2:46 pm)
@Steve - On another thread about the 3D Builder, they've pretty strongly hinted that there will be no more beta or demo versions available, in preparation for going strictly commercial. That's a shame, really, since I have never been able to get any of the BETA versions to do anything useful, and it would seem to me that it's simply not ready for prime time, and I simply cannot imagine paying for any software that I can't try first.
#15
We are very close to release, so we don't have any beta builds for people to check out at this point. A LOT has been fixed in the past weeks and we are hard at work at getting the final product out and into your hands, so stay tuned
11/12/2008 (3:00 pm)
There will be a 30 day trial along with the binary of TX3D, so there is no need to worry about not being able to try before you buy :)We are very close to release, so we don't have any beta builds for people to check out at this point. A LOT has been fixed in the past weeks and we are hard at work at getting the final product out and into your hands, so stay tuned
#16
11/12/2008 (10:57 pm)
Great news. I can't wait so see the final product :) 
#17
What gives here?
11/14/2008 (1:42 am)
I just downloaded the software and I am confused on how to register it. I entered the key above "MZMY-HWHR-ZMAC-KH9W", but I get the "invalid registration key entered". My offline registration is "AMY6-WHM9-2DRC". And, when I continue without the above key, all the menu option are disabled except for opening an existing project.What gives here?
#18
11/14/2008 (2:28 am)
Quote:"invalid registration key entered"There is no more valid key because the beta period has ended.
Quote:all the menu option are disabled except for opening an existing project.This is o.k. because you have to open an existing (empty) 3D project that you created in XNA Game Studio / Visual C#. Same procedure as in TX2D builder.
#19
11/14/2008 (6:28 pm)
Oh Thanks for clearing this up for me! Another question I have is, in my account I have the activate key for the new release, but I get redirected to the XNA site. Does thie mean I have to purchase the membership to download this release and use this key to activate it? Assuming this is correct! 
Torque 3D Owner Kenneth Holst
Default Studio Name
MZMY-HWHR-ZMAC-KH9W