Complete noob questions
by Makumba Makumbre · in Torque Game Engine · 09/27/2008 (4:50 pm) · 22 replies
Hi,
I am new to Torque. At the moment I am considering purchase of this engine, but must admit, I am totally confused, so i would appreciate if somebody answers several questions:
1. About tools - all tutorials I found on your developer site begin with "open some demo project, press F11 or F12 key, the editor opens... etc." Has torque stand alone world and model editor? You see, I am not going to modify a world created by somebody and play with integrated editors. I have worked with Gamebryo, Vision and several other engines and never even dreamed in my worst nightmares that editors may be "integrated". Does SDK ship with stand alone editors, such as world editor, model viewer etc.?
2. How deep those editors are integrated into engine? - If I release a game with this engine will it allow end user to press, for example F11 key and edit the game?
I have one more question about licensing, but I will post it later, If I get positive answers on above 2 questions.
Thanks in advance.
I am new to Torque. At the moment I am considering purchase of this engine, but must admit, I am totally confused, so i would appreciate if somebody answers several questions:
1. About tools - all tutorials I found on your developer site begin with "open some demo project, press F11 or F12 key, the editor opens... etc." Has torque stand alone world and model editor? You see, I am not going to modify a world created by somebody and play with integrated editors. I have worked with Gamebryo, Vision and several other engines and never even dreamed in my worst nightmares that editors may be "integrated". Does SDK ship with stand alone editors, such as world editor, model viewer etc.?
2. How deep those editors are integrated into engine? - If I release a game with this engine will it allow end user to press, for example F11 key and edit the game?
I have one more question about licensing, but I will post it later, If I get positive answers on above 2 questions.
Thanks in advance.
About the author
#2
The World, GUI, and Particle editors are integrated into the SDK. The editors are WYSIWYG, which is very handy when building a mission. When you are ready to ship your game, you can completely disable the editors so that your end user cannot use it. It is possible to create a separate mod project dedicated to a single editor, but it's still pretty much the same thing: a Torque project that modified to launch something that is integrated at the engine level.
There are various ways to protect your assets, from free resources on this site, .dso generation, and 3rd party tools. Now, there are some applications that can rip assets right from a rendering stream, but there isn't much you can do about this. However, your average computer user won't be using this kind of tech.
09/27/2008 (5:10 pm)
There is a separate tool for model viewing: Showtool Pro.The World, GUI, and Particle editors are integrated into the SDK. The editors are WYSIWYG, which is very handy when building a mission. When you are ready to ship your game, you can completely disable the editors so that your end user cannot use it. It is possible to create a separate mod project dedicated to a single editor, but it's still pretty much the same thing: a Torque project that modified to launch something that is integrated at the engine level.
There are various ways to protect your assets, from free resources on this site, .dso generation, and 3rd party tools. Now, there are some applications that can rip assets right from a rendering stream, but there isn't much you can do about this. However, your average computer user won't be using this kind of tech.
#3
Yes, I know about 3D Ripper DX, Gameasassin and similar tools, but they can rip only geometry, without skeletons, and rigging is not an eassy task. I will check tools you mentioned.
But, what about editors, it is very pity. I simply can not accept that concept of game design.
Anyway, thank you very much.
09/27/2008 (6:37 pm)
Thanks for prompr answer. Yes, I know about 3D Ripper DX, Gameasassin and similar tools, but they can rip only geometry, without skeletons, and rigging is not an eassy task. I will check tools you mentioned.
But, what about editors, it is very pity. I simply can not accept that concept of game design.
Anyway, thank you very much.
#4
Yes, I know about 3D Ripper DX, Gameasassin and similar tools, but they can rip only geometry, without skeletons, and rigging is not an eassy task. I will check tools you mentioned.
But, what about editors, it is very pity. I simply can not accept that concept of game design.
Anyway, thank you very much.
09/27/2008 (6:41 pm)
Thanks for prompr answer. Yes, I know about 3D Ripper DX, Gameasassin and similar tools, but they can rip only geometry, without skeletons, and rigging is not an eassy task. I will check tools you mentioned.
But, what about editors, it is very pity. I simply can not accept that concept of game design.
Anyway, thank you very much.
#5
If the editor is integrated or external, your like or dislike may be personal preference. Do you find anything wrong with it on a technical issue?
09/27/2008 (6:41 pm)
I have to know, not as an argument, but for the sake of knowing...what's wrong integrated editors? I don't see how it has any impact at all on your game's design.If the editor is integrated or external, your like or dislike may be personal preference. Do you find anything wrong with it on a technical issue?
#6
Another difference is that in stand alone editor I can start my application from zero, not forced to build some pre-made map and change it and play with it like a child. And what about all thise garbage that pre made folders already contain? How to clear it? Is there any way to start making game from 0? I didnt find that way.
The company where I work currently works on rather small project - not worthing to buy AAA grades engine, we need small engine, highly customizable, without pre-defined folder hierarchy, capable to load content from memory, packages (with our own format, of course) and such thing. Built in editor, in this case, as it seems to me binds game developer to predefined hierarchy (correct me, if I am wrong). Even to add an object to creator tree, one is forced to place it in pre defined folder. Stand alone editors are much more customizable, they are not simply mission makers.
I dont know, may be I am wrong, but it appears to me stand alone editors are must have for good engine.
09/27/2008 (7:39 pm)
It is not only personal preference, as it seems to me. With stand alone editor I can create map file, put necessary objects - animations, meshes in folders where I want they to be (directories, packages), not the engine pre defined folders. i.e. define application folders structure and content myself.Another difference is that in stand alone editor I can start my application from zero, not forced to build some pre-made map and change it and play with it like a child. And what about all thise garbage that pre made folders already contain? How to clear it? Is there any way to start making game from 0? I didnt find that way.
The company where I work currently works on rather small project - not worthing to buy AAA grades engine, we need small engine, highly customizable, without pre-defined folder hierarchy, capable to load content from memory, packages (with our own format, of course) and such thing. Built in editor, in this case, as it seems to me binds game developer to predefined hierarchy (correct me, if I am wrong). Even to add an object to creator tree, one is forced to place it in pre defined folder. Stand alone editors are much more customizable, they are not simply mission makers.
I dont know, may be I am wrong, but it appears to me stand alone editors are must have for good engine.
#7
Basically, everything you mentioned can be done. The only thing you have to do is learn how. That requires reading documentation and actually looking through the example projects. Of course, that is a given with any game engine or tool.
09/27/2008 (7:48 pm)
Well, you asked me correct you if you are wrong....and I'm sorry to say you are. You are able to 100% customize your folder hierarchy of a Torque game project. I've written tutorials to do so. You can start with a single folder that contains the executable and DLLs and build from there. You could code the entire game without ever using the WorldEditor.Basically, everything you mentioned can be done. The only thing you have to do is learn how. That requires reading documentation and actually looking through the example projects. Of course, that is a given with any game engine or tool.
#8
The wyswig editors in torque are for placing assets. You place them live in the game allowing you to make sure they are where you want them. To disable the editors, you simple change 2 lines of code in a script file, and delete a folder.
this tutorial series will show you how to start from scratch You can pretty much use whatever folder structure you want as long as the engine knows where to find the basic files it needs to run.
I found this using the little search box at the top of the forum and typed in "tutorials".
09/27/2008 (7:55 pm)
If you are referring to a modeling tool as an editor, Those are seperate. You would export as a dif or dts depending on what your needs are. The source code is included for those exporters so you can use them as an example of how to make an exporter for your favorite modeling program to torque or your own home brewed format. The wyswig editors in torque are for placing assets. You place them live in the game allowing you to make sure they are where you want them. To disable the editors, you simple change 2 lines of code in a script file, and delete a folder.
Quote:Is there any way to start making game from 0?
this tutorial series will show you how to start from scratch You can pretty much use whatever folder structure you want as long as the engine knows where to find the basic files it needs to run.
I found this using the little search box at the top of the forum and typed in "tutorials".
#9
Thanks, I will search for documentation and tutorials you pointed out.
09/27/2008 (7:57 pm)
That is quite different matter. I got information about how to add object to creator tree from E. Maurina's book, I didn't suppose there are another ways too.Thanks, I will search for documentation and tutorials you pointed out.
#10
@Makumba- The great thing about game development is there is no right way to make a game. There are personal preferences, and some technologies better suited for certain games than others. Anyone who comes out claiming there is an absolute right way to make a game is a bold face liar or has no clue what they are talking about.
I fully see what your point was. I got an idea of what you want: more control over your game design and technology. I just wanted to point out what you want can be done in Torque. Let me know if I can help out =)
09/27/2008 (8:01 pm)
@Mike - Eesh...that tutorial looks familiar.@Makumba- The great thing about game development is there is no right way to make a game. There are personal preferences, and some technologies better suited for certain games than others. Anyone who comes out claiming there is an absolute right way to make a game is a bold face liar or has no clue what they are talking about.
I fully see what your point was. I got an idea of what you want: more control over your game design and technology. I just wanted to point out what you want can be done in Torque. Let me know if I can help out =)
#11
Now, time to learn. :)
Thanks again.
09/27/2008 (8:17 pm)
As it seems to me, at the moment I know too little about Torque and was making incorrect decision. Thanks for showing me things differ from what I was thinking about Torque.Now, time to learn. :)
Thanks again.
#12
Welcome to the world of Torque. After you've gone thru the docs, you'll see that you can do pretty much whatever you want with torque. It just takes time to learn how everything fits together.
Good luck with your project and happy Torquing.
@ Michael, ... I dunno why.... :-D
09/28/2008 (7:21 am)
That's the great thing about this community. You can ask a question, and people will attempt to answer it. :-)Welcome to the world of Torque. After you've gone thru the docs, you'll see that you can do pretty much whatever you want with torque. It just takes time to learn how everything fits together.
Good luck with your project and happy Torquing.
@ Michael, ... I dunno why.... :-D
#13
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=13888
but yet i am not able to include any chat room in my TGE........please help me with this..
09/28/2008 (11:41 am)
Can anyone help me with the chat functionality of torque game engine? I am done with the steps described in the garagegames link:http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=13888
but yet i am not able to include any chat room in my TGE........please help me with this..
#14
09/28/2008 (12:29 pm)
I haven't tried that resource so can't really help you with it. You might try emailing the author of it tho.
#15
09/28/2008 (12:45 pm)
#0006 - You'll want to post in the actual resource. You'll need to post any errors or warnings you are getting. Be very specific about your problem, and the people who have gotten the resource to work can help you
#16
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=13888
but yet i am not able to include any chat room in my TGE........please help me with this..
09/28/2008 (5:19 pm)
Can anyone help me with the chat functionality of torque game engine? I am done with the steps described in the garagegames link:http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=13888
but yet i am not able to include any chat room in my TGE........please help me with this..
#17
Example - Change all the HudMessageVector with $ChatRoom or $HudMessageVector or any variable name you feel comfortable using and all the ChatHud (that are not function definitions) with $ChatHud in the whole file, this will enable us to instead of
Using a single object we will use a "pointer" (the global variable) to the object so we can change it at any time.
while( !chatPageDown.isVisible() && HudMessageVector.getNumLines() &&
(HudMessageVector.getNumLines() >= $pref::HudMessageLogSize))
Should look like this.
while( !chatPageDown.isVisible() && $ChatRoom.getNumLines() && ($ChatRoom.getNumLines()
>= $pref::HudMessageLogSize))
I am not getting any warning or erros but i am still not able to get a chat window.
The files that I modified were - 1. ChatHud.cs
2. ChatHud.gui
3. Messagehud.cs
4. common/server/Command.cs
The modifications include adding the given code, modifying some function definitions etc.
The link is - http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=13888
Can some one suggest some thing?
09/29/2008 (8:10 am)
In the tutorial its been asked to cover some steps of addition of a code to the file and modifying the file etc.Example - Change all the HudMessageVector with $ChatRoom or $HudMessageVector or any variable name you feel comfortable using and all the ChatHud (that are not function definitions) with $ChatHud in the whole file, this will enable us to instead of
Using a single object we will use a "pointer" (the global variable) to the object so we can change it at any time.
while( !chatPageDown.isVisible() && HudMessageVector.getNumLines() &&
(HudMessageVector.getNumLines() >= $pref::HudMessageLogSize))
Should look like this.
while( !chatPageDown.isVisible() && $ChatRoom.getNumLines() && ($ChatRoom.getNumLines()
>= $pref::HudMessageLogSize))
I am not getting any warning or erros but i am still not able to get a chat window.
The files that I modified were - 1. ChatHud.cs
2. ChatHud.gui
3. Messagehud.cs
4. common/server/Command.cs
The modifications include adding the given code, modifying some function definitions etc.
The link is - http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=13888
Can some one suggest some thing?
#18
Again, I think you should also post in the resource. I haven't used the tutorial, so I don't know what could go right or wrong. However, someone who has completed it could probably help with specifics. Try posting there too =)
09/29/2008 (8:25 am)
Have you tried debugging the scripts yet? If you have Torsion, I'd suggest using break points and debugging. Don't forget echo(...) statements, as those can walk you through where code gets stuck.Again, I think you should also post in the resource. I haven't used the tutorial, so I don't know what could go right or wrong. However, someone who has completed it could probably help with specifics. Try posting there too =)
#19
Example - Change all the HudMessageVector with $ChatRoom or $HudMessageVector or any variable name you feel comfortable using and all the ChatHud (that are not function definitions) with $ChatHud in the whole file, this will enable us to instead of
Using a single object we will use a "pointer" (the global variable) to the object so we can change it at any time.
while( !chatPageDown.isVisible() && HudMessageVector.getNumLines() &&
(HudMessageVector.getNumLines() >= $pref::HudMessageLogSize))
Should look like this.
while( !chatPageDown.isVisible() && $ChatRoom.getNumLines() && ($ChatRoom.getNumLines()
>= $pref::HudMessageLogSize))
I am not getting any warning or erros but i am still not able to get a chat window.
The files that I modified were - 1. ChatHud.cs
2. ChatHud.gui
3. Messagehud.cs
4. common/server/Command.cs
The modifications include adding the given code, modifying some function definitions etc.
The link is - http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=13888
Can some one suggest some thing?
09/29/2008 (11:16 am)
In the tutorial its been asked to cover some steps of addition of a code to the file and modifying the file etc.Example - Change all the HudMessageVector with $ChatRoom or $HudMessageVector or any variable name you feel comfortable using and all the ChatHud (that are not function definitions) with $ChatHud in the whole file, this will enable us to instead of
Using a single object we will use a "pointer" (the global variable) to the object so we can change it at any time.
while( !chatPageDown.isVisible() && HudMessageVector.getNumLines() &&
(HudMessageVector.getNumLines() >= $pref::HudMessageLogSize))
Should look like this.
while( !chatPageDown.isVisible() && $ChatRoom.getNumLines() && ($ChatRoom.getNumLines()
>= $pref::HudMessageLogSize))
I am not getting any warning or erros but i am still not able to get a chat window.
The files that I modified were - 1. ChatHud.cs
2. ChatHud.gui
3. Messagehud.cs
4. common/server/Command.cs
The modifications include adding the given code, modifying some function definitions etc.
The link is - http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=13888
Can some one suggest some thing?
#20
09/29/2008 (4:14 pm)
Can Anyone Suggest me any other tutorial for activating the chat functionality in the TGE?? the garagegames tutorial is not working...... 
Makumba Makumbre
3. Is Torque file format well protected? What I mean - Is tehere option to encrypt map files (nut sure about file types, I hope you will excuse me) and objects? Or everybody with torque engine, or tools can fetch Geometry from released game?