IPhone Licensing Model Discussion
by Brett Seyler · in General Discussion · 08/14/2008 (2:15 pm) · 73 replies
Hey guys,
I thought a long time about doing this, but I've decided that I want some some early feedback from those of you interested in licensing Torque for the iPhone before we set up a licensing model to roll with permanently. Building an effective, fair licensing model is a tricky thing to do. To give you some perspective, the costs for getting TGE and TGB ported are pretty considerable. We're talking about 3 full-time devs for nearly 3 months. If you do the math, it's a significant investment, but one we're proud to have nearly done at this point. We expected interest in the product would be high, but it's outpaced even our most optimistic assumptions. Many of the inquiries have been from you, our core users who take game development seriously, but aren't making millions at it yet. It's always been our mission to enable you to reach the next level, and making games for the iPhone could be a really great chance to do that at a minimal cost. In the past, getting games on a phone required huge hurdles, so "hitting the big time" usually meant making a great PC game and getting picked up to put your game on a console or two. With the iPhone, this could be much easier. There's no dev kit to buy except the iPhone or iPod Touch as a "dev kit" and of course you have to work on a Mac (unless you're really crafty...more on that later) which some people already do. Pretty nice!
So while it's important for us to be able to recoup the investment in porting TGE and TGB and to be able to continue funding improvements to the SDK, it's even more important that we don't close the door on any of you who are serious about making iPhone games with Torque. Originally we had planned to roll out a licensing model very similar to what we have for consoles (Wii and 360), but we're not absolutely glued to that. What I want to do here is open a discussion about what you all would like to see in terms of licensing Torque for iPhone development. I promise I'll take your feedback into account and in the end, we'll try to make the best decision we can for you.
As a frame of reference, here are some possible models we considered:
$15k unlimited titles, no royalty
Pros: Clean, simple, actually much less expensive than our console licensing of Torque
Cons: A bit high for many Indies
$5k / title, no royalty
Pros: Clean, simple, still a fraction of our console pricing
Cons: Still a bit high for Indies
$2-3k / title, 10% royalty
Pros: A bit more affordable for serious developers
Cons: Royalties can be a pain to track and Apple's already taking 30%
$500 / title, 30% royalty
Pros: Definitely affordable for anyone shipping games
Cons: Royalties for the same reasons as above
Obviously the latter choices would allow us to license Torque for the iPhone to more of you, so that's appealing, but we can get creative with this if we want too. Let us know what you think. Nothing's written in stone here. Again, goal #1 is be able to pay for the work and continue to fund improvements to the SDK. Goal #2 is to get this in as many people's hands as possible.
Please share your thoughts in a constructive way. The floor is now open for discussion. Thanks in advance guys.
I thought a long time about doing this, but I've decided that I want some some early feedback from those of you interested in licensing Torque for the iPhone before we set up a licensing model to roll with permanently. Building an effective, fair licensing model is a tricky thing to do. To give you some perspective, the costs for getting TGE and TGB ported are pretty considerable. We're talking about 3 full-time devs for nearly 3 months. If you do the math, it's a significant investment, but one we're proud to have nearly done at this point. We expected interest in the product would be high, but it's outpaced even our most optimistic assumptions. Many of the inquiries have been from you, our core users who take game development seriously, but aren't making millions at it yet. It's always been our mission to enable you to reach the next level, and making games for the iPhone could be a really great chance to do that at a minimal cost. In the past, getting games on a phone required huge hurdles, so "hitting the big time" usually meant making a great PC game and getting picked up to put your game on a console or two. With the iPhone, this could be much easier. There's no dev kit to buy except the iPhone or iPod Touch as a "dev kit" and of course you have to work on a Mac (unless you're really crafty...more on that later) which some people already do. Pretty nice!
So while it's important for us to be able to recoup the investment in porting TGE and TGB and to be able to continue funding improvements to the SDK, it's even more important that we don't close the door on any of you who are serious about making iPhone games with Torque. Originally we had planned to roll out a licensing model very similar to what we have for consoles (Wii and 360), but we're not absolutely glued to that. What I want to do here is open a discussion about what you all would like to see in terms of licensing Torque for iPhone development. I promise I'll take your feedback into account and in the end, we'll try to make the best decision we can for you.
As a frame of reference, here are some possible models we considered:
$15k unlimited titles, no royalty
Pros: Clean, simple, actually much less expensive than our console licensing of Torque
Cons: A bit high for many Indies
$5k / title, no royalty
Pros: Clean, simple, still a fraction of our console pricing
Cons: Still a bit high for Indies
$2-3k / title, 10% royalty
Pros: A bit more affordable for serious developers
Cons: Royalties can be a pain to track and Apple's already taking 30%
$500 / title, 30% royalty
Pros: Definitely affordable for anyone shipping games
Cons: Royalties for the same reasons as above
Obviously the latter choices would allow us to license Torque for the iPhone to more of you, so that's appealing, but we can get creative with this if we want too. Let us know what you think. Nothing's written in stone here. Again, goal #1 is be able to pay for the work and continue to fund improvements to the SDK. Goal #2 is to get this in as many people's hands as possible.
Please share your thoughts in a constructive way. The floor is now open for discussion. Thanks in advance guys.
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#42
Or do you have to rebuild your game from scratch with the new iphone version?
edit: I think the idea of paying a royalty to GG is absurd. The legacy of your company was built upon "no-royalties". My money as a customer helped you get where you are. I guess in the four years since I purchased the Torque Engine you guys are learning how to forget what your mission "was/is".
Think about this: Apple doesn't charge for their SDK, and made the barrier to entry $99. They could have made it $500 but they chose not to, why do you think they did that?... Because they new they would make it up with VOLUME OF ADOPTION.
Thank you for a glimpse into how GarageGames REALLY thinks as an organization: How can we stick it to the little guys who helped us build this company....
08/20/2008 (4:30 am)
Can you create games in TGE and TGB, and open them in the iTorque version? In other words can you use the cheap version to develop 90% of your game then only get the iPhone version when ready to publish?Or do you have to rebuild your game from scratch with the new iphone version?
edit: I think the idea of paying a royalty to GG is absurd. The legacy of your company was built upon "no-royalties". My money as a customer helped you get where you are. I guess in the four years since I purchased the Torque Engine you guys are learning how to forget what your mission "was/is".
Think about this: Apple doesn't charge for their SDK, and made the barrier to entry $99. They could have made it $500 but they chose not to, why do you think they did that?... Because they new they would make it up with VOLUME OF ADOPTION.
Thank you for a glimpse into how GarageGames REALLY thinks as an organization: How can we stick it to the little guys who helped us build this company....
#43
08/20/2008 (11:35 am)
@James: Are you serious? GG sticks it to the little guy and in this same universe, somehow Apple is the good guy because they lock down the apps market and take 30%? Hmmm....I have to admit, I'm a little confused. I love the handset and the market has great potential, but I'm definitely not impressed by Apple's "openness" at this stage. I should say that I'm on your guys side, if you're beating up on us for intentionally sacrificing income to continue to support indies. I want to see good games from more people and there are plenty of you out there with a lot to offer and don't expect an game engine for niche platform to be near-free. 
#44
You could always use Google's Android to develop mobile applications. It is free, Java-based, and well documented. That is a much lower bar of entry than Apple's iPhone development platform. It has a great Eclipse plug-in as well.
And you can always roll your own with the developer's SDK from Apple. That's what Ben Versaw's doing, and his team has an awesome looking engine going. There's also Unity, as I'm sure you know. Their pricing has not been announced, but if you've followed your topic there, you know that Unity is definitely watching for our decision. I'm sure that they're also looking at other companies and developers looking to target middle-ware solutions for iPhone development as well since that is a target they are excited to hit as well.
I have no experience with Torque for the iPhone, but with the requirements on most mobile devices, you will most likely have to be much more aware of your resources when developing for a mobile platform regardless of the middle-ware solution that you choose. If you are used to not worrying about your asset management on the PC or Mac, then you will have some rather severe problems when working with a mobile or console platform. If you are extremely resource-aware, then you're most likely also aware of the places that you would have to cut and snip your project to get it mobile-ready.
I haven't used Torque for the iPhone, so I'm not sure if there are profiling tools, etc available that will help, or if the tools included with the developer's SDK will provide valuable moment-by-moment feedback on the resource management of your project. I'm just barely dipping into the world of iPhone dev and have peered at the Android codebase, so I am not fully sure what is available in terms of profiling tech. I've heard a slew of unhappy users of the simulation environment for the iPhone, though.
I can understand being unhappy about the pricing that Brett mentioned in the beginning of this discussion, but your response seems very off-kilter in terms of extremity. But that's just my take. Hope you can get going on an iPhone project soon, regardless of what middleware (or rolling your own) engine you choose.
08/20/2008 (12:04 pm)
@JamesYou could always use Google's Android to develop mobile applications. It is free, Java-based, and well documented. That is a much lower bar of entry than Apple's iPhone development platform. It has a great Eclipse plug-in as well.
And you can always roll your own with the developer's SDK from Apple. That's what Ben Versaw's doing, and his team has an awesome looking engine going. There's also Unity, as I'm sure you know. Their pricing has not been announced, but if you've followed your topic there, you know that Unity is definitely watching for our decision. I'm sure that they're also looking at other companies and developers looking to target middle-ware solutions for iPhone development as well since that is a target they are excited to hit as well.
I have no experience with Torque for the iPhone, but with the requirements on most mobile devices, you will most likely have to be much more aware of your resources when developing for a mobile platform regardless of the middle-ware solution that you choose. If you are used to not worrying about your asset management on the PC or Mac, then you will have some rather severe problems when working with a mobile or console platform. If you are extremely resource-aware, then you're most likely also aware of the places that you would have to cut and snip your project to get it mobile-ready.
I haven't used Torque for the iPhone, so I'm not sure if there are profiling tools, etc available that will help, or if the tools included with the developer's SDK will provide valuable moment-by-moment feedback on the resource management of your project. I'm just barely dipping into the world of iPhone dev and have peered at the Android codebase, so I am not fully sure what is available in terms of profiling tech. I've heard a slew of unhappy users of the simulation environment for the iPhone, though.
I can understand being unhappy about the pricing that Brett mentioned in the beginning of this discussion, but your response seems very off-kilter in terms of extremity. But that's just my take. Hope you can get going on an iPhone project soon, regardless of what middleware (or rolling your own) engine you choose.
#45
I just wanted to note I wasn't trying to be inflammatory with my earlier posts in the thread, as it's really the iPhone and Apple's practices that irk me (seeing as that I want one for net connectivity, but don't relish the thought of the exorbitant price they charge to even get one, much less develop on it (then there's the royalties on top of that!)).
08/20/2008 (12:17 pm)
Quote:@James: Are you serious? GG sticks it to the little guy and in this same universe, somehow Apple is the good guy because they lock down the apps market and take 30%? Hmmm....I have to admit, I'm a little confused. I love the handset and the market has great potential, but I'm definitely not impressed by Apple's "openness" at this stage.@Brett, I completely agree with this.
I just wanted to note I wasn't trying to be inflammatory with my earlier posts in the thread, as it's really the iPhone and Apple's practices that irk me (seeing as that I want one for net connectivity, but don't relish the thought of the exorbitant price they charge to even get one, much less develop on it (then there's the royalties on top of that!)).
#46
08/20/2008 (12:18 pm)
Yeah know, I really think Guimo hit it right on the head. Charge a low price for the sdk, open it right up and if you make an app that does really well then by golly pay for it then. I'd have no problems (and I'm sure no one else would) of dishing out the cash when it's in the pocket.
#47
I'll put this as nicely as I can - no way , not 15k not 1 dollar..
Garagegames needs to read up on a little Joel and pay attention to step 5.
Fix bugs before writing new code.
All you guys are doing are porting the same bugs and issues over to new platforms. Stop chasing all the new hotness or OMG PONIES11!! and fix and implement all the things you've promised for all the other products.
I was a big GG fan. I really was. That was 2003 and this is now and you guys have just disappointed me time after time to the point where I don't recommend Torque any more. Sorry guys, you totally dropped the ball on TGEA on mac and linux, and now all the sudden it's -oh boy MAC!!- again.. No thanks.
08/20/2008 (12:30 pm)
I've tried to ignore this thread, but man..I'll put this as nicely as I can - no way , not 15k not 1 dollar..
Garagegames needs to read up on a little Joel and pay attention to step 5.
Fix bugs before writing new code.
All you guys are doing are porting the same bugs and issues over to new platforms. Stop chasing all the new hotness or OMG PONIES11!! and fix and implement all the things you've promised for all the other products.
I was a big GG fan. I really was. That was 2003 and this is now and you guys have just disappointed me time after time to the point where I don't recommend Torque any more. Sorry guys, you totally dropped the ball on TGEA on mac and linux, and now all the sudden it's -oh boy MAC!!- again.. No thanks.
#48
**Cough**
ABC: Always Be Closing.
08/20/2008 (12:49 pm)
It's all in execution. Like when someone mentions they'd like to find out about actually getting a license maybe the sales force might want to inquire.**Cough**
ABC: Always Be Closing.
#49
It's so ridiculous to hear how "Open and perfect for the indie" the iPhone is when Apple consistently screws their developers over, and still people are just CHUGGING the Apple Kool-Ade. O_o *facepalm*
08/20/2008 (12:50 pm)
Quote:edit: I think the idea of paying a royalty to GG is absurd. The legacy of your company was built upon "no-royalties". My money as a customer helped you get where you are. I guess in the four years since I purchased the Torque Engine you guys are learning how to forget what your mission "was/is".Seriously? I mean, come on. Did you read my post at all? The cost of the iPhone alone is more than what GG is proposing. Then you tack on $99 or $299 to actually deploy to the actual device, AND 30% royalties, AND a crazy draconian NDA that kills developer community interaction, and GG are the ones "sticking it to the little guys". Seriously? XD This is just getting absurd!
Think about this: Apple doesn't charge for their SDK, and made the barrier to entry $99. They could have made it $500 but they chose not to, why do you think they did that?... Because they new they would make it up with VOLUME OF ADOPTION.
Thank you for a glimpse into how GarageGames REALLY thinks as an organization: How can we stick it to the little guys who helped us build this company....
It's so ridiculous to hear how "Open and perfect for the indie" the iPhone is when Apple consistently screws their developers over, and still people are just CHUGGING the Apple Kool-Ade. O_o *facepalm*
#50
Thanks for the generally positive comments guys. This actually really helped us make a decision. I'll be posting a blog soon with pricing information and more details on wider availability. I think you'll be pleased.
08/20/2008 (12:53 pm)
@David: I'm not sure why TGEA support for Mac bothers you with respect to iPhone since the iPhone can't do anything but fixed function rendering anyway. We only have one product that might appeal to Mac users that isn't yet available to them and that's been beaten to death. Are you maybe more upset about Linux support and transferring that frustration to this thread? I'm glad you liked us in 2003. So far as I can tell, we do just about everything better now than we did then and our prices haven't increased. I'm all for taking reasonable feedback, but "not 15k, not 1 dollar" is a little hard to work with and we've been solving lots of issues and squashing bugs left and right.Thanks for the generally positive comments guys. This actually really helped us make a decision. I'll be posting a blog soon with pricing information and more details on wider availability. I think you'll be pleased.
#51
08/20/2008 (12:57 pm)
@Richard: We're shitty salespeople. What can I say? We do our best, but this is a company of developers first, sales second. Trust me, when it starts to get the other way around, everyone suffers because the product suffers. Not a good culture shift either. Props for the Glengarry ref though :) 
#52
I believe I coined the word iTorque here first. I'm gonna trademark it and license it out to everyone for a nominal fee. ;)
08/20/2008 (1:00 pm)
Great news, Brett. At least this can all come to a final conclusion. In the meantime, PLEASE SEND ME THE SDK! Personally, I'm surprised to see someone maintain complete composure throughout this melodrama - I don't know if I could take the type of criticism you handled here.I believe I coined the word iTorque here first. I'm gonna trademark it and license it out to everyone for a nominal fee. ;)
#53
Intelligent Messenger is an arm of SteamPowered Events which is built around the model of: stage an event and then create media to support it.
I hope your model includes a role for folks who will be doing ad supported apps for the iPhone. We don't intend to charge for anything we build.
As for the movie, anyone who is a sales professional loves that flick.
08/20/2008 (1:04 pm)
I live to sell and perhaps there's a roll for evangelical sales folks who love the product. We're looking to roll out a fairly simple iPhone port of a casual game we're having developed in support of the California Steampunk Convention which we're putting on.Intelligent Messenger is an arm of SteamPowered Events which is built around the model of: stage an event and then create media to support it.
I hope your model includes a role for folks who will be doing ad supported apps for the iPhone. We don't intend to charge for anything we build.
As for the movie, anyone who is a sales professional loves that flick.
#54
08/20/2008 (1:08 pm)
Off-topic: the play is better.
#55
I've paid the $100 for TXB, and I tinker. If I never finish anything I start, then I'll still consider it money well spent on a fun toy, in support of GG's admirable business model, and as a bonus for creating Tribes 2.
But now I've got this friend who won't stop saying, "hey cut that out, don't play around with some 2D PC game, you gotta build something on the iPhone instead. You can sell it on the store for 3 bucks a pop and maybe make a few dollars... Look how many games I bought last weekend when I came home drunk! "
I've been bucking him because there are two MAJOR hurdles:
- I don't own a mac or an iPhone.
- I don't know objective C and don't want to roll my own engine.
Then I see that Torque is coming out for the iPhone. "WOW!!" I think, "Surely here is my answer. It definitely gets around the second problem, and could conceivably provide a workaround for the first until I see if the project really takes off!"
But the numbers at the top of this thread put a crash into that little joy-ride.
I find Brett's openness here impressive. But I do want to object to one statement he made:
"I don't think $500 is a big ask of someone making games for the iPhone. Consider that they've already spent nearly $2k on the hardware and service plan, invested in a Mac, and paid Apple $100 for an annual subscription just to get to the gate."
That's backwards. The other costs makes the Torque price harder to swallow.
I have a day job, and this is essentially a hobby purchase for me, not a business investment. In that light, the prices mentioned are too much to bear by far.
Hypocritically, I will also object to 30% royalties. If I can't even dream of a longshot financial upside, I might as well stick to the PC and play my incomplete half-game alone in the dark basement.
That said, I do see why GG feels they have value to offer here, and want to get paid for it. It's just that the value is not worth as much to me, so we have a disconnect and will not be able to do business.
08/20/2008 (1:27 pm)
I'm a hobbyist.I've paid the $100 for TXB, and I tinker. If I never finish anything I start, then I'll still consider it money well spent on a fun toy, in support of GG's admirable business model, and as a bonus for creating Tribes 2.
But now I've got this friend who won't stop saying, "hey cut that out, don't play around with some 2D PC game, you gotta build something on the iPhone instead. You can sell it on the store for 3 bucks a pop and maybe make a few dollars... Look how many games I bought last weekend when I came home drunk! "
I've been bucking him because there are two MAJOR hurdles:
- I don't own a mac or an iPhone.
- I don't know objective C and don't want to roll my own engine.
Then I see that Torque is coming out for the iPhone. "WOW!!" I think, "Surely here is my answer. It definitely gets around the second problem, and could conceivably provide a workaround for the first until I see if the project really takes off!"
But the numbers at the top of this thread put a crash into that little joy-ride.
I find Brett's openness here impressive. But I do want to object to one statement he made:
"I don't think $500 is a big ask of someone making games for the iPhone. Consider that they've already spent nearly $2k on the hardware and service plan, invested in a Mac, and paid Apple $100 for an annual subscription just to get to the gate."
That's backwards. The other costs makes the Torque price harder to swallow.
I have a day job, and this is essentially a hobby purchase for me, not a business investment. In that light, the prices mentioned are too much to bear by far.
Hypocritically, I will also object to 30% royalties. If I can't even dream of a longshot financial upside, I might as well stick to the PC and play my incomplete half-game alone in the dark basement.
That said, I do see why GG feels they have value to offer here, and want to get paid for it. It's just that the value is not worth as much to me, so we have a disconnect and will not be able to do business.
#56
If all I had to do was to rework the assets (scale down graphics, mostly?) and import to iTorque, it would be worth the money. At least I hope that the port will be that easy to use eventually.
If you're going to warm up us developers to the various suggested pricing schemes, tease us with some screenshots from the development process with the iPhone Torque engine ;)
08/20/2008 (3:16 pm)
I don't have any projects brewing which would be appropriate for the iPhone/iPod Touch (at least I don't think they'd work well because of the type of games, rather than controls), but if I did, I'd be making them for other platforms first. If I actually had substantial sales then (I'm dreaming here), I wouldn't mind a higher price than I already paid for TGE or TGB (early adopter price, though :).If all I had to do was to rework the assets (scale down graphics, mostly?) and import to iTorque, it would be worth the money. At least I hope that the port will be that easy to use eventually.
If you're going to warm up us developers to the various suggested pricing schemes, tease us with some screenshots from the development process with the iPhone Torque engine ;)
#57
The higher prices would be good if Ronny's scenario was everyones, but you'll probably get both. I think that a price around $500 with a 10% to 20% royalty after $2500 made would be the best.
08/20/2008 (3:28 pm)
I agree. I don't plan on making anything for the iPhone, but if I was, I'd probably make it for another platform first.The higher prices would be good if Ronny's scenario was everyones, but you'll probably get both. I think that a price around $500 with a 10% to 20% royalty after $2500 made would be the best.
#58
GG could craft an arcade type player that innovative developers can write a series of games for. The end user only has to download the player with one or two games installed. The revenue stream comes from a purchase system to add new games to the player for $.99. Cheap as ringtones, plus you're not tethered to the App Store once it's installed.
Any game you've bought can be reinstalled again for free. A built in rating system lets the best new games rise to top of of the on board game update screen. Also, by making the player the only piece that's in the App store developers can use the simulator to build and test without ever owning an iPhone. GG sells the dev kit at their usual prices creating a pool of coders who wil one day get to the level of skill to make their own full blown games.
I could sell this for sure.
08/20/2008 (3:41 pm)
I have a suggestion, which is in keeping with the types of iPhone apps we are building at IM.GG could craft an arcade type player that innovative developers can write a series of games for. The end user only has to download the player with one or two games installed. The revenue stream comes from a purchase system to add new games to the player for $.99. Cheap as ringtones, plus you're not tethered to the App Store once it's installed.
Any game you've bought can be reinstalled again for free. A built in rating system lets the best new games rise to top of of the on board game update screen. Also, by making the player the only piece that's in the App store developers can use the simulator to build and test without ever owning an iPhone. GG sells the dev kit at their usual prices creating a pool of coders who wil one day get to the level of skill to make their own full blown games.
I could sell this for sure.
#59
08/20/2008 (3:57 pm)
One of the main problems with many of the above ideas is the idea that you will simply be able to take an existing game from TGE or TGB take your assets and punch them into Torque for iPhone and expect it to work. It won't. The iTouch and iPhone are great platforms yes, but unless you have designed your game basically from the start with the limitations of the platform in mind you are never going to get your game to work on it.
#60
When I was in the Electric Sign business, we'd often throw numbers around in the 100 Thousand range on a daily basis. To have a chat like this at a local pub with a prospective customer was very common.
( Think commercial )
At the smaller businesses we call Mom and Pop stores which are often small family owned companies, the numbers were very frequently in the 10 thousand dollar range, often less.
( Think Indie )
Often times the customers would have no clue about the effort, expertise, design time, materials, labor costs, city permits, electrical permits, and finally the crane costs and installation charges.. would cost. Many customers never budgeted for a sign as they simply forgot and on the grand opening day they often scrambled for a quick cheap plastic banner for $40.00... their lack of planning showed when they had very few customers visit their store because for example.. who wants to buy fine china when the outside of the store has a simple paper banner ripped to pieces from the last rain storm.
My point of all this is really a motto we use " The definition of a great deal, is what the customer believes is a great deal."
Of course I would never show a design to a customer and ask them if they'd be willing to buy this design for $100.. or buy the product for 10,000 dollars plus installation fees...
I would approach the customer in a "Matter of Fact" way and tell them outright.. this design will cost you X amount of money plus X amount installed, and it's guarenteed to last probably longer then you'll be in business.
This pretty much means.. Only GarageGames knows the actual costs to produce this SDK.. and only GarageGames can determine if the release of the SDK will be worth the asking price when you consider or study the market demand or potential market demand.
As a last note for this post, like Insurance companies.. it's all about the Numbers... you'll make more money selling for low costs to millions of interested people... then you will by bashing the Indie with a huge price.
( Thats where the motto I stated above, kicks in. )
Ball is in your court.
08/20/2008 (4:22 pm)
@Brett,When I was in the Electric Sign business, we'd often throw numbers around in the 100 Thousand range on a daily basis. To have a chat like this at a local pub with a prospective customer was very common.
( Think commercial )
At the smaller businesses we call Mom and Pop stores which are often small family owned companies, the numbers were very frequently in the 10 thousand dollar range, often less.
( Think Indie )
Often times the customers would have no clue about the effort, expertise, design time, materials, labor costs, city permits, electrical permits, and finally the crane costs and installation charges.. would cost. Many customers never budgeted for a sign as they simply forgot and on the grand opening day they often scrambled for a quick cheap plastic banner for $40.00... their lack of planning showed when they had very few customers visit their store because for example.. who wants to buy fine china when the outside of the store has a simple paper banner ripped to pieces from the last rain storm.
My point of all this is really a motto we use " The definition of a great deal, is what the customer believes is a great deal."
Of course I would never show a design to a customer and ask them if they'd be willing to buy this design for $100.. or buy the product for 10,000 dollars plus installation fees...
I would approach the customer in a "Matter of Fact" way and tell them outright.. this design will cost you X amount of money plus X amount installed, and it's guarenteed to last probably longer then you'll be in business.
This pretty much means.. Only GarageGames knows the actual costs to produce this SDK.. and only GarageGames can determine if the release of the SDK will be worth the asking price when you consider or study the market demand or potential market demand.
As a last note for this post, like Insurance companies.. it's all about the Numbers... you'll make more money selling for low costs to millions of interested people... then you will by bashing the Indie with a huge price.
( Thats where the motto I stated above, kicks in. )
Ball is in your court.
Torque 3D Owner DALO