RPG Starter Kit?

#21 Several of us have been designing an Online RPG Starter Kit over the past few months.... maybe we should join forces.

We were planning on making the software free anyway, so it'd be a cinch to turn it into a community project.

I've completed an Online RPG using Torque, and so this will be my second generation code, which is always significantly better than the first generation. I can provide some significant coding skill as well as guidance to help the project avoid some of the pitfalls I ran into during my first generation project.

I can also provide a significant amount of infrastructure including an IRC server, forums, SVN server, Trac or Overlord, etc, and we already have several programmers that can help with the software design and programming.

We can keep it generic enough so that it will be useful for all sorts of RPG's, but we can also keep it concrete enough so that each individual Starter Kit user doesn't have to write a whole lot of code.

Here's my suggestion on how to prevent GG's code from leaking, which is always a problem with most community projects like this:

We should keep the RPG Starter Kit code separate and in a public SVN repository... this would be code that only the community has written and would interface to a nice facade on top of Torque. I suggest we keep this code free and open source so that everyone in the community can use it in their commercial projects.

Any changes made to TGE can be shared through some sort of distributed version control system such as Mercurial or Darcs, which allows us to share the TGE code as patches.

@Tony

9. Trade System (along the lines of Inventory, possibly could be considered the same)
10. Groups / Factions (probably only applicable to online games)

I'm sure there's more but I'm at work and I don't have my notes in front of me :P

#22 When you start talking about online RPGs, doesn't that end up being an MMO?

#23 @Tony - Wow, thanks for the offer! That would be agreat benefit to everyone.

@Nathan - Not necessarily. Online simply means multiplayer, maybe two players in a partnership, maybe 100 in an MMORPG.

Depends on the server.

Tony

#24 Perhaps not. I know I could never compete with an MMO. To me online RPG would be something like NWN or some other world that doesn't have 1000s of people in it.

I do not consider EQ, WoW, EQ2, DAoC, etc... to be online RPGs. They don't have a role playing aspect that you would see from traditional RPG games. Sure there are some similar things but I think this talk about a starter kit is on the right track.

Keep it coming guys and gals.

#25 @Nathan - As long as your RPG specific code is network capable, you can worry about scaling into an MMO later. I think a good first target would be a multiplayer online RPG (MORPG), keep scalability in mind, but implement it iteratively.

I.e. walk before trying to fly.

edit Yes, what TheClaus said :P

#26 Can i be in the starter.rpg team to? I have flying and Aiguard setup.

#27 Okay yeah. No MMORPG. For now lets stick with single player stuff, and focus on networking later.

#28 Feel free to sign up on the forums at IndieZen.org and I can set us up with a set of sub-forums.

Also, for something a little more interactive, in the evenings I generally idle in the GG IRC, and most of the time we (the bulk of the IndieZen development team) idle on the irc.indiezen.org IRC server (standard port and port 16667) in channels #indiezen and #izdev.

We should probably create our own channel specifically for this project. Make sure to register your nick and I can give you auto-ops in the RPG Starter Kit channel (#rpgkit?) on the irc.indiezen.org network.

My nick is SgtFlame|Zen in IRC and I use my real name (Tony Richards) on the forums.

Lets get this beast rolling... :P

#29 I'm glad everyone here understands the complexity of an MMO and why we don't want to do one. @Tony, thanks for the offer! It would be great to have someone willing to set all that up :D

For combat I would like to develop a turn-based system. This would be pretty easy to do for single player with random encounters (FF style, you enter a battleground with monsters randomly as you move) though I have no idea how to network that. And a turn-based system. Torque already has a fully implementable real-time combat system, and there are no (or none I've seen) turn based combat resources.

If we could get a forum or something set up, I could help develop sections of a design document detailing how we would cover each of these goals from an art and programming aspect. Until then, let's pick goals we can agree on. So far I think we all can agree on: (yes most of these are from Infinitum's list)

1. Save/Load system.
2. GUI Bag/Inventory system.
3. Level advancement system. Stat advancement, new abilities and exp
4. Item System (for use in combat, potions, elixirs...)
5. Weapon/Armor system. Equippable items that can grant bonuses as well as have custom damage.
6. Magic system
7. Statistics / Attributes
8. Quest. One major goal solved through many subplots, or "chapters."

And several things to discuss:
1. Turn-Based/Real-Time
2. Online (as in co-op)/Single-Player
3. Party system/Solo
4. Random encounters/Pre-spawned mobs. Think FF7 vs FF12 (Does not included scripted boss fights)

#30 On the irc we will use #rpgkit for the channel like tony said.

#31 The RPG Starter Kit forum is set up and ready for general discussion.

If we need, we can split the forum into sub forums.

#32 I can't access the IRC

But as far as the RPG starter kit on the Indie Zen... are we moving this into torque-related work?
EDIT: Ok I looked further and it looks like we are using torque. I was a little confused.

#33 Try ports (6667 and 16667) on irc.indiezen.org. Sometimes if you're at work or at some schools, the default port (6667) is blocked. Both of these ports point to the same server, so either one will work.

Although you already answered your own question, I'd like to elaborate on that a little.

IndieZen's Zen Engine is more than just a game engine. Among other things it's also a full blown game engine framework with customizable middleware / components.

It utilizes a versatile plugin system to allow it to use a diverse set of components, including components out of game engines like Torque.

This allows you to quickly integrate additional middleware to supported game engines.

Following this same pattern and creating an RPG framework with some concrete implementation will make it so that this RPG Starter Kit will work with Torque as well as Unreal, Zen Engine, or pretty much any other C++ based game engine and game middleware.

#34 I can't use IRC either. My internet connection is a cell phone. Email and forum posts only.

@Tony - I'm not a programmer. Can you explain how to integrate the Zen RPGStarterKit plug-in with Torque?

Thanks!
I3D

#35 @I3D - That's about like asking a surgeon "I'm not a doctor, but can you explain how to perform open heart surgery?"

You really would have to be a programmer to understand my answer. In fact, you'd actually have to be a fairly experienced programmer to even come close to understanding the answer.

But... the cool thing is that you wouldn't have to understand the answer anyway. When the RPG Kit is complete, at most you would just have to learn a bit of scripting and follow some examples. The integration will already be done.

Don't worry about not having IRC. You should be able to follow along on the forums.... but, how will you be able to use the starter kit unless you have a computer connected to the Internet?

#36 If I can reach a point in my development where I don't have much to do, I'll help out, but I can't guarantee anything until then.

#37 @I3D - Tony is exactly right. You HAVE to be a programmer to do it. BUT... the nice thing about a community like this is that someone is always there to help you out and maybe do some steps for you.

#38 Even though I have very limited programming experience, (a few years of VB and I must admit RPGMakerXP), I HAVE been able to integrate a few C++ resources from GG. I use Visual Studios compiler, so with a little help from the forums, I can make code changes. Plus I've opened up a few .cc files just to see what they contain.

@Tony - I agree with the Surgeon reference. I'm a Dentist, and I have to try to explain procedures to patients every day. Its difficult to explain the complexities of a molar root canal to someone with little or no medical experience, so I have great sysmpathy for the real programmers out there trying to help the little guy like me, when I don't know where to put a ; or I forget a }.

:) But I am learning more and more each day. I understand the logic and flow, I just have trouble with the basics, like syntax and terminology. I read programming books and tutorials everyday, it just seems like they are for true beginners (Hello World!) or for experts. There is nothing for the "experienced newbie".

But I'll follow along as much as I can, and I'll do my part to contribute as much as I can.

Oh, and I have access to the internet for downloads, just not very often. My desktop PC is either occupied by my wife or my son all the time. I can get on to download something to a flash drive, then copy it to my PC at work (which has no net connection).

I only got this new cellphone because it has a fullsize keyboard :)

I3D

#39 Nevermind.

#40 @I3D: Yeah it's totally cool. Everyone here is willing to help you learn. You just can't do it immediately, ya know? lol. But let any of us know what you need and we will help you out.