Where Can I Get A 3D Modeling Program?

#21 Ranting is the number one passtime of the internet
it should be an olympic sport, lol ;)
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as I said before, max is by far the most popular.
I wont argue that. it is the best all around option.
its just too expensive and complicated for my needs.
(Im gonna look into that hash program btw. I think Ive heard it recommended before)

I tried a truespace demo once. Was up and running in about half an hour and making a spaceship model.
granted it wasent too good, but it was there on the screen.
to me that proves I dont have to waggle around with an impossible interface to get what I want.

what I'm wishing for is a "3ds lite" :p
a simple interface that lets me make what I see in my head and bone animate it to some degree. then the option to plugin when I need.

I shouldent have to attend a class or spend more than an hour in any one book just to make a rotating cube with a picture on one side.

#22 I had to disagree with you, I think max is very easy to use, I used it at school (and later bought the student vertion) and it was a lot easier than milkshape, but this is me...

#23 LightWave was used in Deus Ex, in Independence War and sequel, two expamples.
3DS Max popularity is due to Autodesk and Autocad, this was a great punch in its begining, and it's translate in other languages (spanish, for example).
I like LightWave, is a easy modeller, is cheaper than Max, is a powerfull render and animation program, and it incliudes extra tools, which are add ons (and pay for)in other programs (like Max- Character Studio, etc).
I had used both, I learned LW on my own ( in english) and I take classes for Max (in may language: spanish).
Don't all tools are for all.

Excuse my english. Thanks

#24 Frederick: I believe I read someplace a few months ago about them making a "3ds lite" version for gamers to use for mods and such. I havent heard anything in a while but maybe you could look that up...

#25 Aaron you are thinking of the forthcoming gMax software (which will be shown off at this years QuakeCon). gMax is essentialy a tool that developers can liscense for their own games, they can then take this liscense and create or port over the necessary Max tool that they develop and then distribute a gMax module with their software.

Now before you get your hopes up too hight, gMax will be a highly stripped down version of Max designed mostly for modeling, textures, and skinning. gMax will require modules (which are up to the game developer to distribute) in order to export the information to games. This will also in theory make features and abilities dependant on the module that you have installed.

Unfortunately based on previous conversations on gMax, GarageGames has no intention to liscense gMax and distribute the modules to export the data to the V12 at this time (I am personally hoping they will reconsider this).

Expect more information on the gMax to come out when it is displayed once again at QuakeCon. Note: Most of the information that I have posted here is based on my understanding of gMax based on documents and discussions I have had. For more information I suggest checking out the gMax site http://www2.discreet.com/products/d_products.html?prod=gmax (the information is a bit weak right now, but expect it to refined and expanded upon after Quakecon). Also for more information on gMax at QuakeCon check out this URL http://www2.discreet.com/events/quakecon2001.html

Also FYI, to my knowledge Discreet (formerly Kinetix) did have a 3DS Max lite back when Max R1 was out. This software wasn't very popular and thus was discontinued in favor of the full fledged version.

Logan

PS: No I don't work for Discreet, but if they want to give me a job, I wouldn't argue ;)

#26 Thanks for the info Foster.
I couldnt remember anything about it, so I was hoping someone would :)

#27 In theory that Gmax sounds like what I want...
I'll wait and see though.

GG might be backing off because of the cost.
Private 3ds= $3k
Distribution 3ds= EEP!!

especially seeing as its supposed to be customised to each game. (and probly incompatable to anyone not using v-12 of a certain version)
no mention here yet about a charachter studio or other animation plugin.

with how much this may end up costing. I wouldent be in a rush to embrace it either.

#28 Ok, just to give you my perspective (not being an animator or modeller of any sort, but as a programmer).

Max is fine.. does what most games need. But its slow.

Lightwave has until recently been truly awful for texture application (only having weird projections), its been updated with V6, but lost a lot of ground. Having said that, its a lot cheaper than max on a full price basis.

Maya is fast becoming THE tool for game developers. Mainly because of its scene graph based open architecture (not near open enough). Its overpriced, but it has some excellent animation and texture application tools. We use maya now.

What else is there? well, all of the cheaper apps (or shareware ones) are getting better, but I find max and maya the most obvious, and from a tools/integration viewpoint, they are better for most of the pro developers.

About gMax: It wont happen, the licensing basically states that you cant release the file format the tool produces to the public. So for V12, it would be "you can use this, but we cant explain what it outputs", basically thats a no go.

So what is best? for V12 development right now, youre going to have to find someone with 3dsmax and use the current exporter (note: this is just for the "space" format, not for worldcraft stuff). There are plans afoot to extend the tools beyond whats there (mainly because its required for others who would like to support V12 content creation).

Phil.

#29 One program that really helped me was the doga system from a japanese developer. It's not a 3d modeler but allows you to build 3d objects out of preformed components. The point is to get you to try to think creatively with your modeler. The first one is free but later ones will probably be shareware
http://www.doga.co.jp/english

It really helped me overcome the intimidation factor of learning modeling. It also has links to a modeler called meta-sequoia that looks interesting and fairly cheap.

Someone was asking about a mac modeler a few posts ago. I found a mac only program called hexasuper. It has some very advanced features and is cheap at 54 dollars to register. I don't have a mac so I can't say how good it is, but the screen shots look good.
http://www.shusaku.co.jp/hexa/

#30 Hey Morten,
Is your dad rich or are you confessing to a crime here? lol
I'm paraphrasing myself here, so forgive me for this if you have read this post already.
We have all seen max come of age, but it is not the only program for the job.
Milkshape 3D (http://www.milkshape3d.com/) is a great package because it is inexpensive, powerful and simple enough to do the work. But the most important thing to remember is that it was designed to create and animate game models. Max can do the job, but was really designed to do a lot more. Any software can do the job. But you should also remember that Milkshape isn't going to create the large and complex intro/transitional/win/lose fmv (full motion video) sequences we all lust after. I'm not knocking whichever software you decide to use.
When you are evaluating any 3D package, you should always start with what it was primarily designed to do.
If you were to ask me, I think that someone developing a game, needs to stay focused on just that. The learning curve attached to deciding to go with a complex (and potentially expensive) animation package might have you thinking you may never learn enough to finish a project. And in the end, the finished projects are all we have to show for our efforts. So when someone who finds out we are game developers asks us what we have done, we either say, "Oh, I'm not finished yet, I'm still learning how to use (more complex program than it needs to be)", or we say "yeah, I did a few games called "cheese factory", "penny racers" and "fart wars, return of the skidmark". The difference isn't the software. It's you. Even the best software still needs you to do the work.
Secondly, it is more important to know any program well, than it is to know a "better" or more expensive program poorly. It is a poor craftman who blames his tools. The bottom line is that it does not matter which program you use, as long as A: it does the job, and B: you can use it well enough to do the job.
Schools that teach this stuff still say "you need to use (http://www.discreet.com/) Max, or you can't do any serious work". That may have been the case long ago but there are plug-ins and translaters that will turn just about every object format into just about any other. So do not buy the hype, or soon you will be blaming your software for not finishing what you started. Or worse yet, you will be blaming yourself for not having the money to buy a more robust package, when good old Milkshape would have done the job if you had taken the time to use it.
Thinking that a program is the only serious option is not only short sighted, it is also amateurish. The difference between two programs is insignificant next to the difference between the skills you have in using them.
Use any tool poorly, and you'll probably catch yourself blaming the tool for how hard it was to use or any other reason you can come up with.
Learn to use any tool well enough, and no one will care what you used. Hopefully they will just think it was cool that you created a game.
The difference is always going to be you.

#31 I just taught myself MilkShape with the downloadable avi tutorials. It was VERY easy to learn (coming from someone that has never done any 3d modeling). I was up and running and made my first spacecraft in an hour and a half (not skinned though). It seems to work great for my purposes, but I can see it may cause problems for guys trying to create more elaborate animated player models.

Max, Maya, Lightwave, et al sound great, really, but I am in no position to plunk down $3000 on modeling software for my indie game. I would be suprised if many folks here could spend that kind of cash either. I will not download or use warez or whatever, so my only remaining options are things like MilkShape and Blender.

I know theres been some great work done to export MilkShape models to the v12, but still I get the feeling from checking out the boards here that I may be swimming against the current if I dont have Max. My concern is growing...

#32 Patience =) The Milkshape exporter is coming along nicely it is only a matter of time before it is ready =)

#33 Nice job picking up Milkshape, James,
And don't worry so much.
The makers of v12 want it to be easy to develop games using it. After all if they made Max or something a requirement, their engine could cost nothing and very few people would use it. Instead, they are trying to appeal to a market who is willing to pay $100.00. This means that they are not going to try to make the work ahead of you any harder than they have to.
If you want to be a modeler, do your homework. Decide what you want to use and do your best. There isn't a lot you can't do with even the simplest packages. But your results are directly proportional to your efforts. Sure you have to work harder with something that is a little light in the feature department. But the price of Max Maya and Lightwave are high because they are more than just modelers. There are more expensive packages than these. That's why Milkshape is affordable.
Have a look at
http://www.davecentral.com/graph3d.html
for some more options. (there are a lot, though some might be better suited for the task than others).
If you are getting into modeling to satisfy a demand for game models, why not consider asking for help?
I just got LightWave 3D [7] (hot off the presses). But that is because it is my livelyhood. Modeling and animation is what I do.
If game development is something that most of you do in your spare time, then don't overwhelm yourself with something that is only part of the process. You will lose sight of the vision that made you want to make a game to begin with and all the fun and enthusiasm will just drain away.

Long ago, I was part of another game dev community. All of us would usually pool our resources and chat in icq with some times 10 or 15 of us at once. Some of us would code, others would make gobs of textures, and I would model along with another few guys. It was heaven.
But I suck when it comes to programming. And it took me a little too much time alone to figure it out. I tried to write my own game (a sci-fi/anime epic he he), and even got my web page listed on the home page where the game engine is sold, to show off the engines features.
Everyone was nuts to play a demo level. Everyone said it looked great. I could build a level, model players and even skin them. But I could not get it to work. I was so discouraged and depressed that I gave up altogether. I let a lot of my friends down. It was fun helping them, but I wanted my own game.
Now I have no fantastic game to show for it.
And a few of my friends have moved on to get published, win awards and contests and even continue to make other great games. I still get to help one of them.
Another told me about garagegames just today.
So while I could have moved on to bigger and more fun things, I let myself get consumed by what I could not do.
And ended up doing nothing.
So I kept my day job. Which is still great. But lets face it, we are all here to make games.
Lets not lose sight of that.

#34 Do I ever shut up?