How does a huge game like halo 3 or call of duty cost 15 million

#1 Open up your favorite game and click "credits". There is your answer.

#2 Oh, so it isnt the actual game that costs a lot, its the employees

#3 Nod, the average programmer makes 30k+ a year. multiply that by 10 programmers thats 300k in 1 year, just for 10 people, now lets tack on the artist, lets say they make 25k a year we need 10 artists for weapons/characters and 10 artists for enviroments, thats 500k a year. so in one year for 30 folks, thats 800k, now lets add in musicians, engineers to maintain the computers for the techs, the leads, and as Peter said open the credits. Folks dont realize that games like Halo, or CoD takes 2-3 years to make in most cases they dont even start really programming iniatially for 6months to a year after the progrect is started.

If you have Halo3 the legendary edition(the one with the making of Halo3 DVD and the helmet.) Watch the documentary. Now realise that there must be about 100-150 folks there on a average day. Not counting the folks that have outsourced work or dont even work in the office. Like the Mocap, or voice acting. Then you have to of course rent a building, overhead, electricity, perks, its adds up fast. This is something that i try to bring up when i can.

Alot of folks charge full pro rates to indies. And GG does well to have a indie friendly pricing system. If you look at the commercial price for a license such as Havok (yes its free now) but for them they had to buy a licence for each game system setup(as per whatever the agreement was) which by itself can cost thousands of dollars per person/team(based on the agreement). Consider everything you see in a game like Halo/CoD/similar. Every piece had to be made/programmed/tested. It takes months/years/careers to make a game.

#4 Good summation but your salaries are way too low. A mid-level programmer is looking at 60k+ and senior level approaches 100k+.

#5 I agree with Edwards post. People go to art school to get a seat in a Game company and they need to pay that tuition loan somehow right? The job often pays very well for the right employee.
You see it here at GG as Content Packs, it's the artists way of getting known and prevent starvation, but granted it is on a small scale.
The upside to your question however, is that Drew Snyder might just discover that next generation niche game that everyone will want to play, but to get there, Drew will need to sart here at GG with Torque, And when that happens.. You'll see it actually costs far more then 15 million to produce and market.
Fortunatly for your company you'll be making more then your spending.

P.S. Keep your Virus Software up to date and back up to CD when you can.. I recently lost my project 80% completed to a missed virus that could have ben prevented if I had updated my software and kept my empty CD's handy for backup.

#6 It was just a approximation to give a general example. But yah, unfortunatly these costs are way out of the general independant price range. Even Fantasci is approaching the 25k mark for its costs, and were still at least a year away from a release date.

The key for indies to create games like Halo, is team work, having folks that want to see a game succeed and joining them and say, ill throw my hat in the ring with you. Unfortunatly, many folks once they reach a certain level, find that they can charge more for certain services and move from being a indie friendly to a career lifestyle(yes we know that folks need to make a living :) dont we all) But a group of folks can with a touch of determination and a bit of patience can certainly create games like Halo for far less then 15 million. But as soon as your start bringing in the commercial pricetags. You jump into a entirely new area of conversation.

Example, a programmer can program a entire engine on his own time. Who is paying that engineer, its his own time. But he say, makes a game with it. That is where the value is. But once he sells that game over X number of dollars. He looses that status. It works upwards too. That first game is the maker and breaker of a studio or team.

#7

Quote:
Oh, so it isnt the actual game that costs a lot, its the employees

What's the difference?

#8 The employees are the cheapest part of making a game from what I've seen. You'll spend more on advertising than on employees. Halo 3 spent a few million on ad spots alone.

#9 There's also the tools cost, which ain't cheap. Especially when you start licensing out tools, OSs, hardware for your entire dev team. And then there are the bloodsucking vampires(j/k) that make all those must-have plugins for your tools.

Not to mention Q/A, publishing and distribution contracts.

And then there's "Lobster and Strippers" Fridays... those get expensive too...

#10 You can't put too high a cost on "Lobster and Strippers" Fridays.

#11 There's so many other things that one would never think about. Localization, bug testing, documentation, legal stuff, cost of print and packaging, distribution, support....

It goes on and on.

As far as advertising, think of all the viral marketing and cross marketing that was done with Halo and it still kicked them in the pocketbook. The very name Halo sells itself. The ad campaigns were simply to let potential buyers know that the game was finally almost ready. And I still dig the Halo Mountain Dew. Game Fuel rocks.

This is going to sound strange but $15 mil almost seems reasonable to me.

#12 Consider that GTA4 costed 100 million to make, but made 500 million in profits in the first week.

#13 Guys, I am an average programmer. Just tell me where I can get 30k a year? :D

#14 @Konstantin, Well.. I DID post quite a lengthy paragraph but decided to shorten it to this.
30k a year is almost nothing, It's enough for a single man living at home with parents these days.

Set your site a tad higher like around 60k for a couple and 70k for a small family of 4 ( according to a recent survey of annual income above poverty thats based on family size where I live ).

If we all just keep plugging along at our projects.. eventually we will see the light at the end of the tunnel.
And remember that Indies tackle the game concepts that huge companies wouldn't touch, which means that at the very least we have more creative freedom then that programmer in a cubicle. Worth far more then any salary based job in my opinion.

#15 Sigh...what I could do with just one million.

#16 I live with my wife for less than a $1000 in a month, and our prices are higher than in the US (except the bread). So I am very wondering where to get a 30k in a year for an average programmer :)

I think that you forgot that there are HUGE amount of programmers outside the US. And they are willing to work for $12k a year, or even less. The biggest IT company in my city pays $400/mo to the programmers, and it's considered a great salary.

Just think outside US, and it will reduce your expenses a lot. ;)

Big companies works for a big money. They make researches, they have a team of game designers. they invest millions, and they got millions back. And when we are speaking of small games, its incredibly hard to make something that worth $100000 in sales. Even $20000 is considered a good average game. And you have to work a lot to get them.

So this freedom is rarely converts into profit. It might be good to have a freedom of choice, but sometimes you want to eat :)

#17 Programmers here get the equivalent of $68000 to $130000. System administrator are somewhere in the middle of that range. Europe isn't always cheaper :)
(I just wish I could GET those jobs! So many competing.)

#18 Well, I would gladly work for $15k, and for $30k you can have me all :D The problem is that nobody is offering such salaries here :(

#19 @Konstantin - We are currently hiring a TGE programmer, and can offer a decent salary. The contact form on your website didn't work so I'll try here. You can email me at petesimard@rampid.com if you are interested.

#20 As Brian stated, licensing of tools and SDKs gets very very pricey.

Let's look at Assasin's Creed. They used Havok. I'm willing to bet a lobster and stripper Friday that they licensed Havok Complete. That's Havok Physics and Animation.

Now, I know the cost of that package but am not allowed to reveal the price.

I can tell you this: we can play the "Higher or lower" game and your jaw would start dropping as I kept repeating "...higher...higher...nope, go higher..."

Edit: Fixed game title. Scott is exempt from the of the bet