Lightwave Modelers?
by Donald McDade · in Artist Corner · 10/16/2002 (5:36 pm) · 7 replies
Just curious if there are any other lightwave modelers here?
I would like to start some kind of resource regarding Lightwave tips/tricks for the dts exporter. Maybe just keep a LW DTS Exporter thread and post work arounds or something.
Meaning, there are so many bugs in it, maybe we could work out a list of work arounds or specific steps on how to model specifically for it.
Dave, if you read this, I hope one day you are able to get back to working on the dts exporter. It is a great tool, but is seriously lacking for now. It is hard to create complex vehicles that export correctly. I would like to do it myself, but I am no programer, and have no desire to be a programmer...lol
I would like to start some kind of resource regarding Lightwave tips/tricks for the dts exporter. Maybe just keep a LW DTS Exporter thread and post work arounds or something.
Meaning, there are so many bugs in it, maybe we could work out a list of work arounds or specific steps on how to model specifically for it.
Dave, if you read this, I hope one day you are able to get back to working on the dts exporter. It is a great tool, but is seriously lacking for now. It is hard to create complex vehicles that export correctly. I would like to do it myself, but I am no programer, and have no desire to be a programmer...lol
#2
10/18/2002 (5:55 pm)
Vehicle problems eh? Can you be a little more specific? I've exported my share of vehicles, and the only thing that I've noticed is that if there is a transparent surface the wheels will be transparent as well. Although I think this is the same behavior for milkshape and I still need to find the time to test this further. If you have a specific question or problem I'd be glad to help, but for now I don't have much to go on.
#3
10/18/2002 (6:29 pm)
Oops, I guess I should have read through the thread in the tools board before posting... Seems like you've explained it in detail. How do you normally do rotations in LW? As far as I know the only way to do a perfect rotation is to have the pivot at the objects center. Unless I misunderstood your post. Does it not work if you move the pivot in Layout? I'll do a little experimenting.
#4
Thanks for replying. First I'll start with the original way I was doing tire rotations from modeler to layout to dts.
Modeler:
Do to the version of torque we are using, for some reason we cannot use nulls to call a seperate wheel dts in. I know nothing about programing, so o'k...
So in modeler, I create the entire mesh, in layers, Body, Radar, RearWheels, RtFrntWhl, LftFrntWhl..etc..
Each Layer is then has it's pivot point assigned. Now, mind you, at this point, I'm looking at the vehicle as it should look in layout. For shortness, we'll say my RearWheels are at position 2,0,2 and the Pivot is set to 2,0,2.
Now, in layout, I can bank these wheels around that 2,0,2 axis perfectly. I save the animation sequence as "run" and export animation dts.
In show tool, I load the model, and select the "run" thread, and the wheels are not rotating about that 2,0,2 axis set in modeler. They're using some hockey axis that makes them do huge loops around that 2,0,2 axis.
--------------------------------------
The fix:
While in modeler, I go to each layer and center them (F2). Then I adjust the portion of the mesh reletive to axis 0,0,0 meaing wherever I think I want the pivot point at, I put that point at 0,0,0, than I use the "Pivot Script" and using the numeric (n) tool, I set the pivot point to 0,0,0.
Repeat for every layer.
Export to layout. Now I have to reassemble the mesh layers to the original postions I wanted and keyframe them at Frame 0, then do all the same animations and export dts.
I hope that is clear enough.
In show tool, everything works great.
10/19/2002 (8:42 pm)
Hi Kevin,Thanks for replying. First I'll start with the original way I was doing tire rotations from modeler to layout to dts.
Modeler:
Do to the version of torque we are using, for some reason we cannot use nulls to call a seperate wheel dts in. I know nothing about programing, so o'k...
So in modeler, I create the entire mesh, in layers, Body, Radar, RearWheels, RtFrntWhl, LftFrntWhl..etc..
Each Layer is then has it's pivot point assigned. Now, mind you, at this point, I'm looking at the vehicle as it should look in layout. For shortness, we'll say my RearWheels are at position 2,0,2 and the Pivot is set to 2,0,2.
Now, in layout, I can bank these wheels around that 2,0,2 axis perfectly. I save the animation sequence as "run" and export animation dts.
In show tool, I load the model, and select the "run" thread, and the wheels are not rotating about that 2,0,2 axis set in modeler. They're using some hockey axis that makes them do huge loops around that 2,0,2 axis.
--------------------------------------
The fix:
While in modeler, I go to each layer and center them (F2). Then I adjust the portion of the mesh reletive to axis 0,0,0 meaing wherever I think I want the pivot point at, I put that point at 0,0,0, than I use the "Pivot Script" and using the numeric (n) tool, I set the pivot point to 0,0,0.
Repeat for every layer.
Export to layout. Now I have to reassemble the mesh layers to the original postions I wanted and keyframe them at Frame 0, then do all the same animations and export dts.
I hope that is clear enough.
In show tool, everything works great.
#5
That said, it would make sense that you would have to follow these steps, since it's using the dts' pivot point (I think). The version of Torque I started with already had the new vehicle code in, so I never actually tried it the old way.
What happens if you try the following:
-set up you model in modeler just as you want it
-send it over to layout
-in layout move the pivot for each wheel (or for 1, then clone it 3 times) into place.
-set up and export as a DTS.
That would save you the step of centering in modeler.
Beyond that I would have to grab an old version of the engine to test.
10/21/2002 (12:51 pm)
Ahh... ok, now it makes a lot more sense to me. It sounds like you are using Release_1_1_1 or earlier of the engine. That would explain why you can't use a null as the tire. In that release the tires are in the same object as the rest of the vehicles mesh and the tires have to be animated. For Release_1_1_2 and up the tires are stored in a separate dts file, and the engine does all the animation of the rotating tires. It sounds like you're a good bit into development already, but FYI there are a lot of vehicle improvements in the later versions.That said, it would make sense that you would have to follow these steps, since it's using the dts' pivot point (I think). The version of Torque I started with already had the new vehicle code in, so I never actually tried it the old way.
What happens if you try the following:
-set up you model in modeler just as you want it
-send it over to layout
-in layout move the pivot for each wheel (or for 1, then clone it 3 times) into place.
-set up and export as a DTS.
That would save you the step of centering in modeler.
Beyond that I would have to grab an old version of the engine to test.
#6
Before you post, you should check to see if you are using the latest engine and the latest exporter. I have been a beta tester for Dave for awhile. I have had share of my problems, but as far as I know, they are fixed. Do you even know what you are doing in LW? It makes me wonder. Dave is doing great service to LW and torque users. You should thank him not complain like that.
Daniel
10/21/2002 (1:48 pm)
FourD,Before you post, you should check to see if you are using the latest engine and the latest exporter. I have been a beta tester for Dave for awhile. I have had share of my problems, but as far as I know, they are fixed. Do you even know what you are doing in LW? It makes me wonder. Dave is doing great service to LW and torque users. You should thank him not complain like that.
Daniel
#7
You are right, in another post, Eric just stated we are using the 1_1_1 version...Drats!
"What happens if you try the following:
-set up you model in modeler just as you want it
-send it over to layout
-in layout move the pivot for each wheel (or for 1, then clone it 3 times) into place.
-set up and export as a DTS.
""
Nope doesn't work, only using modelers 0, 0, 0 pivot point works, then assemble in LW.
"Dave is doing great service to LW and torque users. You should thank him not complain like that. "
You are absolutely right. Thanks DAVE!!!
10/22/2002 (1:06 pm)
" It sounds like you are using Release_1_1_1 or earlier of the engine"You are right, in another post, Eric just stated we are using the 1_1_1 version...Drats!
"What happens if you try the following:
-set up you model in modeler just as you want it
-send it over to layout
-in layout move the pivot for each wheel (or for 1, then clone it 3 times) into place.
-set up and export as a DTS.
""
Nope doesn't work, only using modelers 0, 0, 0 pivot point works, then assemble in LW.
"Dave is doing great service to LW and torque users. You should thank him not complain like that. "
You are absolutely right. Thanks DAVE!!!
Associate David Wyand
Gnometech Inc.
FourD, I was going to respond to your email you sent me last night, but I see you've posted the same thing here, so I'll respond here.
I'm glad that you like using the LW DTS exporter. However, when I see "there are so many bugs in it" and "It is hard to create complex vehicles that export correctly" I get quite concerned. I'll tackle each item separately.
Bugs, bugs, bugs
I'd have to admit that I'm a little stumped on this one. The only true bug in the release version that has been brought to my attention (which had to do with character animation) has been fixed and the parties involved are happy. All other bugs that have been brought to my attention have ended up being a misunderstanding in the use of the exporter or LightWave.
I try to test things out as much as I can, and try to release a bug-free product. It really concerns me when I see blanket statements about large quantities of bugs being tossed around as this is the first I've heard of it. Please, if you could be more specific as to the exact nature of the bugs, then I can begin to look into them and begin to correct them. Feel free to email me, or write about them in the GG forums.
Creating complex vehicles
I know that others have been using the exporter to create vehicles so perhaps they can comment on any troubles you're having. Kevin O. certainly knows this stuff inside-and-out. Again, some more information here would be great so we can actually help you out.
In your email, you mentioned a problem with modifying the origins of a vehicle. Essentially, the origin in Modeler is used for the origin for vehicle parts. For a vehicle body, this is the centre of gravity. For a wheel, this is the centre of rotation.
If you wish to change a vehicle body's centre of gravity, then translate the object in Modeler, re-save, load into Layout, and without moving it, export it to a DTS file (of course, you'll need the appropriate nodes as well). The same can be done with wheels.
Of course, if your problem is something else, please elaborate. Also, feel free to send me your scene file and objects for me to take a look at. It has certainly helped out others in the past.
One final thing you mentioned was the feature set of the current exporter. You'll be happy to know that this will be expanding Real Soon Now(tm) as you can see in another post I made in the Tools forum.
- LightWave Dave