What EXACTLY is an engine?
by Jeremy Tilton · in General Discussion · 09/16/2002 (3:02 pm) · 24 replies
No, this is not a dumb question because I've heard many many different explanations. From my research when I first entertained the idea of becoming a developer, I've learned that engines are packages that take care of all the 3D rendering and stuff so that all the developer needs to be concerned with is the logic of the game itself. I'd equate this to Dreamweaver or Frontpage for Website building. However, whenever I make websites, I use notepad. I do it all in code, and never use a GUI. So is that essentially what a Game Engine is? I've heard many people tell me it is impossible to make a game without a packaged engine, but why else do people learn DirectX and OpenGL if the package does it all for them? I'm a masocist when it comes to programming. I like to do it all from scratch if I can, so someone explain exactly what an engine does. Not to say that one isn't useful, just that from my understanding, a game can be done without one, and that would make it belong to me that much more.
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#2
09/16/2002 (4:56 pm)
Yes, you can write a game from scratch but engines are researched and programmed by teams of coders over many years with budgets of hundreds of thousands of dollars, so I don't see why you'd want to write your own from scratch when you can use a tried and true one.
#3
09/16/2002 (7:41 pm)
Unless you're making a puzzle game or soemthing where you'd be doing more work hacking the engine to fit than you would to write your own simpler one.
#4
09/16/2002 (9:34 pm)
Thanks for the reassurance. I'll keep that in mind, but as I said, I'm a masocist. (C: Plus, I got a ton of time, as does my team.
#5
09/17/2002 (12:32 am)
Engines are developed by teams of 30 or more people working on it full time over a period of 2-4 years. Its going to be really hard for a small team to make one no matter how much free time they have. Just my opinion.
#6
Hay, If you want to make your own engine then I applaude you. But it won't be easy.
Good Luck.
09/17/2002 (3:10 am)
Ahem, John Carmack anyone...Hay, If you want to make your own engine then I applaude you. But it won't be easy.
Good Luck.
#7
But I agree when you talk about UT2k3/NOLF/DOOM3 and Torque (of course) -like engines.
09/17/2002 (6:31 am)
That's depending on the engine, there are not only ego-shooter-engines with mixed indoor/outdoor and physics out there. Think of flightsimulators, racing games and tatical games with top-down-view.But I agree when you talk about UT2k3/NOLF/DOOM3 and Torque (of course) -like engines.
#8
3dsMax and Milkshape can be equated to dreamweaver, in that they present an easier interface for creating things of a certain format.
In fact, so can C: it presents an easier way of writing code than assembler, then turns what you've made into assembler.
Now, in terms of websites the Game Engine is Internet Explorer. It translates the things you have done (levels, models, sounds) into the format you want to present it in (a game).
So, the equivalence for you writing your own game engine instead of using someone else's is writing a new Internet Browser.
Plenty of people write their own game engines. There are lots of good reasons for it.
There are plenty of good reasons for writing HTML in notepad too. But it certainly doesn't make you "hard core" in the same way.
09/17/2002 (6:51 am)
Well, there's a problem in equating a game engine to DreamWeaver and Frontpage in that it's completely untrue.3dsMax and Milkshape can be equated to dreamweaver, in that they present an easier interface for creating things of a certain format.
In fact, so can C: it presents an easier way of writing code than assembler, then turns what you've made into assembler.
Now, in terms of websites the Game Engine is Internet Explorer. It translates the things you have done (levels, models, sounds) into the format you want to present it in (a game).
So, the equivalence for you writing your own game engine instead of using someone else's is writing a new Internet Browser.
Plenty of people write their own game engines. There are lots of good reasons for it.
There are plenty of good reasons for writing HTML in notepad too. But it certainly doesn't make you "hard core" in the same way.
#9
09/17/2002 (8:45 am)
Hey, Torque Sellers. You can thank these people for opening my mind up to the possibility of using Torque. But I have a million and two questions, so would a rep please contact me via email?
#10
09/17/2002 (8:50 am)
Jeremy-What sort of questions do you have?
#11
1) Buy Tribes 2 and play it a bit. It's only
09/17/2002 (8:58 am)
If you're seriously thinking about buying Torque for you and your team and using it to write a game with I'd do the following:1) Buy Tribes 2 and play it a bit. It's only
#12
09/17/2002 (9:05 am)
Quote:The graphics are very good, but not cutting edge any more (sorry people, that's a fact) and you are unlikely to get it looking cutting edge.This looks pretty good to me:
#13
09/17/2002 (9:07 am)
The graphics are only gonna get better (especially with people like Melv May working on 'em )
#14
09/17/2002 (9:13 am)
Ryan, quite simply, I'm unfamiliar with the concept of "scripting a game". When I hear "scripting a game" I think of web-based games in Javascript or perl. So I have questions as a programmer about how powerful ur scripting language is compared to C++ (I know it says C++ "like" syntax, but how close is it?). I have questions about the Integrated Development Environment that you got inside the engine, how easy it is to import models and levels created in 3DS and Worldcraft, how the engine is editable...mostly programmer's questions. Not to say $100 isn't cheap as hell for an engine, but I DO have bills to pay, y'know.
#15
09/17/2002 (9:19 am)
Jeremy; you should download the Realm Wars demo. You can look at and modify the scripts that come with that, and add models and maps to your hearts content. Best of all, it's free!
#16
I'm sorry, but that's not cutting edge. It does look good, but it doesn't look as good as Metroid prime, and that's running on a damn GameCube.
Look. I love Torque but I'm just being honest. Torque is no longer cutting edge graphically and never will be again.
And it most certainly never was cutting edge on interiors. T2's exteriors still look lovely, but will only get more dated.
09/17/2002 (9:36 am)
In reply to Ryan.I'm sorry, but that's not cutting edge. It does look good, but it doesn't look as good as Metroid prime, and that's running on a damn GameCube.
Look. I love Torque but I'm just being honest. Torque is no longer cutting edge graphically and never will be again.
And it most certainly never was cutting edge on interiors. T2's exteriors still look lovely, but will only get more dated.
#17
09/17/2002 (9:37 am)
Quote:I'm unfamiliar with the concept of "scripting a game". When I hear "scripting a game" I think of web-based games in Javascript or perl. So I have questions as a programmer about how powerful ur scripting language is compared to C++ (I know it says C++ "like" syntax, but how close is it?).The scripting language does have a C++ "like" syntax. The scripting engine is integrated into the engine itself. You can access the engine from script, i.e. change variables, create functions to do things, etc. For example: I scripted a player selection screen for Realm Wars that accessed a class from the game engine that would display buttons, player models, etc.
Quote:I have questions about the Integrated Development Environment that you got inside the engine, how easy it is to import models and levels created in 3DS and Worldcraft, how the engine is editable...mostly programmer's questions.There are tools and exporters so that you can import models and shapes into the engine. You can use 3DS Max, Milkshape, WorldCraft, and a few other tools to accomplish this. The TGE Features should give you a pretty good rundown as to what you can do with the engine.
#18
Which is in no way to be rude to the developers. We've having a discussion about the merits of Torque, not a stroking session.
09/17/2002 (9:38 am)
In fact, I'd like to reiterate that the screenshots above are in no way, shape, or form cutting edge, in my opinion.Which is in no way to be rude to the developers. We've having a discussion about the merits of Torque, not a stroking session.
#19
09/17/2002 (9:54 am)
(C: Well, I'm not gonna be able to create cutting edge graphics anyway. I'm looking for revolutionary gameplay. Besides, this is my foot in the door of the game industry, most people make games like pacman and frogger when they submit their portfolios. So I'd be happy with something that is "good but not cutting edge". Especially for $100. I just want to make sure I'm going to have the power to make my game the way I want it. I can control lighting, camera, and all that right? Also, do people have the ability to make any game genre on this? Like, RTS, 3rd Person action, FPS, etc?
#20
09/17/2002 (10:02 am)
Jeremy, I think the answers to your questions are all yes. You can probably find most of the info you need in the forums. Again I will recommend that you download the Realm Wars demo and play with it for a while. You can probably create an FPS game just by modifying the scripts and replacing models and graphics. 
Torque Owner Robert Brower