What is up with Microsoft Gaming?

#1 Yes that is true. They are also building a new sun and they are going to blow up the old one so they can charge people for light. After that the moon will be relocated to where Mercury is and Mercury will be moved to where the moon is and then they will change it's name to Moon 2 just cause they can. The old moon will be named Prince since he doesn't use that name anymore. Personally I can't wait to see Moon 2... but since they will control the new Sun you won't ever see it because the sun will always be on.

#2 None of the console makers make money on the sales of their consoles (afaik). They try and make the money on the sale of the games themselves. There is no grand conspiracy though, Microsoft has been known to undercut the competition when it wants to control a specific market. And last, just to make you feel better.. there isnt a chance at this point in time that the xbox360 could achieve any of those things.. their not even the top seller.

#3 The Nintendo Wii is the only current gen console that doesn't lose money off of the hardware.

#4 Madd the only true competition between consoles at the moment is between Microsoft and Sony.

Nintendo and Microsoft actually seem to be in pretty good standing towards each other - such to the extent that, if I remember correctly, at game developers conference's Microsoft speaker's have actively encouraged people to buy a Wii along with an XBox 360. In addition, many of the blogger's from Microsoft actively voiced enthusiasm over Nintendo's projects.

The only company you should be concerned about right now is Sony, who is lying out every hole in their body to everyone they can. However, due to the negative response lying usually receives - its highly unlikely Sony will ever dominate the video gaming industry in the future.

Since its not nice to say mean things without citing references - http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/12/13 - although there are really many many more times they have treated their consumers like idiots, such as the "If you find a PS3 available to buy we'll give you cash gimmick" because they refused to believe that their systems were not only not flying off the shelves - but easily available to find due to the very low demand.

#5 Well yes, its a known Microsoft strategy to undercut -even give for free- their products to takeover a market of it intrest. This time I guess, would be a little different, cause Sony and Nintendo are huge multinational corporations as well.

Anyway, the moves that Microsoft do are usually not for direct profits, but for domain of a sector. Think of what happen with Internet Explorer, MSN Messenger, Outlook Express, and now what will happen with Silverlight and the MS Reader format... they just give for free the products -with that imposible to compete distribution vector, Windows- in exchange for competition elimination. Then they just have this huge captive market that allow them to define what technological paths will follow, cause in fact its their desition and no one else in a high number of sectors, due to that fact.

On the specific console market, the move from Microsoft its not to control the console market itself -too many powerfull players already-, but to accelerate the convergency that Sony and Nintendo are evading since a long time: console=internet=music=video=tv... guess what: console = PC. And who exactly domains the PC market?

So, they have "created" this Xbox aparatus that is nothing than a fashioned PC, that even has Windows. With time, the other consoles, to be able to compete with the infinite features of a PC, will need to became the same, closing the circle.

In the meantime, on the other side, they already make the move by trying to enforce the use of Vista on the PC gamer sector by denying DX10 to any other. And what Vista has? Requirements-O-Matic! "Name the game, I'll tell you if you can play it"...THAT is scary.


Honestly, I dont know how others could beat this strategy; maybe thinking on Linux or a new PC architecture. New ideas like the Wiimote need for an urgent wider context, to not perish on the hands of modern society speed vortex. Microsoft has the advantage of the first move: If the other players dont start to innovate, if they just follow the stablished path, well, I think the console market will not be controlled by one, but just disappear.

Edit: typos

#6 MS is mother of all marketing and lying to the customer is standard fare there too. Sony is just not as good at it as MS. The current generation of consoles are far to expensive from Sony and MS. Until the price comes down I won't be getting either. MS has lost this round at my house as I was not happy with the Halo2 ending and Sony has better RPG selections. So when the PS3 gets cheaper I will be picking it up, but it has to get WAY cheaper. I am not surprised by these companies lying. Sony just got caught.

#7 For the two above posters, Microsoft is not the giant evil corporation you seem to think it is. Look at how much Microsoft has done for Indie Game Developers and developers in general (free development tools, xna, etc).

Does Microsoft lie? I don't believe so - I have never once in my life ever felt that Microsoft was evil and I strongly believe those who are do are simply because they have encountered an error in the OS, which all to often is not Microsoft's fault but the user who is using it.

Microsoft is always too smart to lie, lying to a costumer is a horridly bad practice and has killed entire businesses in the past.

Also, here is a news flash to everyone. Games are not the key focus of either Sony or Microsoft - they are truly experiments for them. Nintendo is the only company that cannot afford to lose the game industry, which is why they are so much better then the other two at developing games and consoles.

Also on Sony, I'm not a Sony hater, far from it I wish I could play some of the PS3 games but out of principle I'm not buying a PS3 or any other Sony products until Sony cleans up it act. Not to mention that the PS3 was a fabulous "idea" but what we got was a horrid realization of that idea.

#8 Ben, I never said that "Microsoft is a giant evil corporation". I just enumerate strategies MS used in the past, and strategies that it use now. All the rest, come from being a giant corp., in this case we are talking about Microsoft, but giant corporations are not good at all.

For the rest, and I tell you this with all the humility I can, your position is so naive, that I dont know exactly from where to begin to connect with you to arrive to something.

#9 You're right on the consoles not making much money as the trade price for retailers is not that great either, once the manufacturers, distributors, advertising/pr companies take their cut. Without the consoles, there would be no games, and without games there would be no consoles! :) Still, there are Indie developers. Just one day there will be a media console out there that will enable any indie developer to create and publish their game on without the need for the approval stamp and where would the consoles be then?. With two types of gamers... PC/MAC who are sit at a desk getting back ache while playing their favourite games for hours on end, or the console gamer who chills out on a sofa, a beer beside them with a wireless controller.

#10 Actually the PS3 seems to me the more cost efficient choice for many reasons. While the blue ray players themselves are on the market for about $500 bucks, you can get a ps3 for about $100 less, not only that but you get the benefit of the game system itself. If you want to play HD movies on a x-box, you have to spend a additional $200 for the drive. HD movies aside, look at the games available for both systems, you think you got your self a great deal on that x-box think again, but how much more money will you spend over the long run, keeping in mind that online game play on the xbox is also not free.

#11 I thought the $399 PS3 didnt come with a blu ray.... I might be wrong though.

I also heard it isn't backwards compatible with PS1/2.

#12 @Ibis, that is the Sony argument since the realese of the PSP3, but the truth is that the bluray is not an standard yet (in fact is loosing that battle), so there arent much movies on the format, is a very expensive format, and in the end, the numer of games that actually NEED the extra space of a bluray are so few, that the argument (which in the end is about the format) is falling apart.

#13 (all PS3 come with blue ray, it's the disk format used for the games themselves).

@Novak, aw come on does it really matter what the standard is. The truth is HDTV itself is not a standard at this time. You look at the bluray disk, thats the format used to create the games themselves, of the format work for hd video then great, it serves a dual purpose. It could be another 10 years before a standard format emerges, by that time the PS3 will most likely have done away with bluray and be pushing some other type of non standard format.

Space wise... i don't know, on the surface it may seem like its a waste of disk but really, if you look at a game like "Uncharted", that has like 10 different languages in it (don't quote me on the exact number), but these are fully dubbed languages, not just subtitles or what have you.

On the other hand (don't want to sound like I'm pimping out the PS3, I'm pretty much impartial when it comes to the two systems. and i do have my own set of gripes about the system itself such as the backwards compatibility issue, and the fact that the controller that comes with the system doesn't even support the rumble feature. Or that games like Guitar Hero 2 or Time crisis come with one controller, but if you nt a second controller its not available by itself.

Sony recently did a bold move by updating their firmware to allow support for divx video. This alone is a major move in terms of quality of the system although it's a bit of a dirty move.

#14 Lol Ibis, I know what you mean, the standard format is not necesarily the better one. In fact its a minor requirement ;)

But you will agree with me on this: it really matters which the standard format is -or at least the most wide adopted- in terms of costs.

Sony has historically push alone to enforce his own formats, that finally are often never adopted (like the MiniCD), formats that are ultimately implemented only on Sony products like -again- the miniCD or more recently the memoryStick. So, you get caught on a format thats only Sony compatible: thats not exactly a cost efficient choice isnt?

I know its better to have a MULTI-10 movie, but there comes again the fact that they are promoting the game pataform with movies, cause the games are few, not different from other consoles. or even worst.

The move to make the PSP3 be able to play DivX, shows that point, but at the same time is contradictory with the common sense: why should I pay such amount of money to view a movie that I can perfectly see on my current DVD player, or even on my current PSP?

#15 My main problem with the PS3 is that there are next to no games that I want to play on it yet. I have a simple rule: I have to have double the number of games (in cost) that I want to play to make the console price make sense. Otherwise, why not rent it, play the three games that are exclusive and good, and then be done with it?

It may have "teh l33t tek" inside, but right now I have trouble being bothered to care. I'm quite happy with my 360 and Wii, and I'm sure that I'll be happy when the PS3 offers games I want to play. But I can't imagine buying one now.

#16 I don't understand the MS hate either. They've released a lot of great development tools for free. Windows, despite its flaws, is easier to run than Linux. And the Xbox 360 is the best console I've ever had. Why hate them? Because IE isn't as good as Firefox? Or that the complex OS on top of complex hardware sometimes crashes? Please.

#17 Another totally desinformed *opinion*. Please?

There are two facts here:

1) there is no MS hate here. There is a discussion about its console policies. Read the thread.

2) As you well said, you dont understand why such actitud cause you just dont know. Instead of ennumerate ridiculous reasons, you should read a little more, inform and put yourself in context, and then you could have a real opinion.

Of course before that, you should understand in deep what Windows is, what Linux is, what each one represents (in the process, you could read the newspapers, to see which one is the latest monopoly denounce again MS), and the same with the console that you gracefully call "best console I've ever had".

Also you should talk to system administrators (like myself) that could tell you a little more about it, about what really implies in the day-by-day all that you think you know so well.

And finally, to really put the things in context, you could read about modern corporations in deep, and what they represent and how they actually operate.


If you do that, I think that should help to leave behind this kind of ultra-light opinions that are posted on this kind of debates.

#18 I apologize if I sounded too rude on my previous post.

I just feel a little angry when I invest certain energy to elaborate and write my posts, and others criticize it, with not very elaborated arguments.

Of course this kind of things are common on big communities like this one (where people is looking for something specific and the thread just passes quickly), and I should not take it so seriously.

#19 Spend 15 years in the IT department from the level of a technician up to Department Manager and you'll
develop a strong distaste for Microsoft and it's "practices". I wont bother going into detail..

Basically the decision on which console to buy is typically based on what you already have. The Wii is in
a good position because it's relatively cheap. So the stretch to spend the money isn't that bad. If you've
invested a great deal in an XBox and a bunch of games you're more likely to invest in an XBox 360. If you've
had a PS2 and gathered a large collection of PS2 games, you're likely to invest in the PS3.

Our family chose the latter this Christmas. I was a little pissed when I read that the 40gig PS3 had the
backward compatability ripped out so they could shave $100 off the price, but with what I suspect is coming
down the pipe in terms of games for the PS3 and it's capabilities, I chose the 80gig anyway. Now that they've
updated the system software many more of the PS2 games work just fine. The other main reason I chose
the PS3 is for BluRay Hi-Def movies.

Our local Blockbuster has two sections for HD movies. (HD-DVD and BluRay) They both seem evenly stocked.
There are of course titles in one format that aren't in the other. In looking at the sales figures given as of
November of 2007 (source Wikipedia) BluRay is actually selling more discs than HD-DVD. Realistically at this
point it's to early to tell a winner. I suspect they'll both be around for a long time. They both have a large
installed client base.

As for the original question of the thread. Yes, Microsoft is a giant multi-national corporation. They have
proven time and time again that they will shove crap out the door before it's ready, and sell it for less than
the competition (as if there is any) to grab that captive audience. As long as there are politicians that will look
the other way while holding their pockets open, Microsoft will do whatever it wants, and steamroll over any
who gets in their way. Some may say that's the free market society we live in, but I say that's the corrupt
and untrustworthy government we have allowing a single company to have to much power. Microsoft got
away without a scratch in the US when the DOJ spent MILLIONS to prosecute them for monopolistic
practices. The same proceedings took place in other countries where they didn't get off so easily.

Yes, Microsoft gives indie developers a lot of tools. They do it for free to attract those developers and get
more titles for their platform so they can dominate the market. It's what they do, and they're good at it.

Halo3. Have you ever seen so much Hype over a videogame?? I've never seen anything like that happen
with any games on any other platform. Microsoft's marketing engine manages to get on every news channel
and they end up with lines waiting outside the stores for days to get things like a videogame, or a buggy
OS that really isn't ready yet. It's all marketing hype, smoke and mirrors. Yes, Microsoft is evil.

#20 Thank you Kevin, I think you cover exactly the point. About your first paragraph, Im so sorry ;)

I didnt know about the sales of blu-ray discs though. My last info was about two of the major film industry enterprises not supporting the format. But of course, if they see bills, then the position can change very easily.

And the whole part describing your opinion about MS, well, I couldnt write it better. (No really, I mean it, my english is terrible, and many times I cannot express myself as I wish to, but you really expressed what I think ;D)